Mike Belden 1054128 Posted December 21, 2009 at 06:43 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 06:43 PM I was going to fly a simple route from Minneapolis to San Francisco. All was quiet in Minn...Not a SINGLE plane around. Then MSP ground came online. I was ok with that. (I guess) Me, being a noob IFR flyer, was not ready to learn today. I just wanted to fly a simple flight, maybe an ATC at KSFO I request to taxi to runway. He told me clearence was recived, "advise when ready to copy" Me being a newbie thought that meant "pushback, engines on, tell controller when ready to taxi". Wrong I start pushing back, as im about half way, I get the clearence from the ATC. Then I get another message in all caps DAL2225 YOU WERE NOT CLRD TO TAXI!!! I said "woops" to myself. I responded with "MSP ground, my apologies, did not read correctly. He responds immediatly with, again in all caps "DAL2225, PLEASE READBACK IFR CLEARENCE!!!" In my point of view, whenever somebody types something in all caps, it registers to me as shouting. I did not read back IFR clearence, instead I just disconnected. I did not feel like putting up with this guys attitude, as I had a feeling I would screw up the departure anyway. Part of the problem was just me and my noob skills, ill admit it. But I have never run into such a...i dont know, serious controller? Maybe thats not the word for it. I just thought this was the only place to come to vent my frustration. I did not feel like I was being helped...Maybe it's because I didnt ask. P.S, I do not wish to be flamed for my skills on this thread. If it's my fault, fine, just tell me that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Hattendorf 935415 Posted December 21, 2009 at 06:46 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 06:46 PM Did you file an IFR flight plan? If so, that's what the controller was going to give you. If you just prefer to fly around, just request a VFR departure. Gerry Hattendorf ZLA Webmaster VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Belden 1054128 Posted December 21, 2009 at 06:52 PM Author Posted December 21, 2009 at 06:52 PM Did you file an IFR flight plan? If so, that's what the controller was going to give you. If you just prefer to fly around, just request a VFR departure. Yes, I did file and IFR plan from vRoute to KSFO. I was not aware that the controller was going to readback after I requested taxi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Hattendorf 935415 Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:06 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:06 PM That's why the confusion, the best way to eliminate this would be to just tell the controller your intentions, I'm sure he would have been happy to accommodate you! Gerry Hattendorf ZLA Webmaster VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:09 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:09 PM mike if you feel the controller was too aggressive just leave feedback at the ARTCC's website. this helps controllers learn, if it was a ground controller, it may have also been someone who's pretty new to controlling themselfs, so it helps them out and it helps theyre instructors figure out what they need to work with. as far as the flight goes. not all airports in the US require you to call for push and start, only a few like ATL, Denver, and the other i forget which i know of simulate ramp control online. all others you do it at your discretion, this could be before you request clearance for all we care, not a biggy, just as long as you remain on the ramp and dont get on the taxiway. once you request your clearance, you will recieve it from ATC, then you have to readback that clearance, full readbacks arent normally required unless your flightplan was modified, its perfect acceptable to readback the squawk only, the controller ofcourse may request a full readback if he/she feels you didnt understand it correctly. after that, you call for taxi etc.. controller should have explained that to you instead of overreacting. this is usually the case with new controllers. they feel they need to be overly aggressive, when thats far from the case. they will learn in time. this is where the feedback helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastien Bartosz Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:25 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:25 PM Don't worry Mike.. you may be a newbie pilot, but a controller acting in such a way (talking in caps and stuff, shouting etc.) is most likely a newbie controller.... Instead of the controller "yelling" at you, he should of said it in another way... there are tons of other possibilities of saying that you needed your clearance... Remember: we all have to learn somewhere... pilots and controllers. New York ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio King 1085967 Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:27 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:27 PM Mike, I apologize about your horrible experience flying out of MSP. I'm a controller in that air traffic facility, and although, as many stated, when filing IFR, you have to go through the entire process of requesting clearance and all, that is no excuse for the controller's attitude. If you remember his name, and I'm sure all of us a ZMP have a good idea as to who it might be, file feedback under that controller's name with the appropriate level of approval (1-5, 5 being the best). Don't let this bad experience ruin your future trips in/out of MSP. We are overall a fantastic group, much alike a lot of other controllers on the network. I once again do apologize for that controller's behavior, and will seek that this sort of predicament never surfaces again. Antonio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Ramsey 810181 Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:31 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:31 PM But all of them do require a read back on a clearance delivery for all IFR flights. So he might have gotten excited but he is tasked with controlling his space and airplanes leaking out of his space not cleared yet will get somebody yelling at him, so just understand that. So excited, not intimidating. His instructors will chat with him sounds like. ATC will always (when on line) give you a clearance which may or may not be what you filed, so you have to listen to it carefully to make sure you fly the correct clearance and flight path. The readback lets them know you got the vital information. After that, you'll get permission to push and start and contact GND for taxi instructions. Welcome to VATSIM. Kyle Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Baker 1080999 Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:40 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:40 PM Antonio, I was watching on Vatspy and I think I know who the controler is. Mike, Sorry about your messy exeprience with that controler. Don't worry 98% of all controllers are not like that. and that same 98% do not bite BTW I don't bite....... ZAU S-2, Major Certified ZAU S-1 Mentor (Disclaimer: the post above does not necessarily express the opinion or stance of ZAU or ZAUs training program, this view is made by me and me alone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Ramsey 810181 Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:54 PM Posted December 21, 2009 at 07:54 PM Guys, It has to be OK to make mistakes on both sides of the scope. This controller is training and getting better every day, I'll bet. This can all be handled very well by his instructor staff and it appears that is the case here. Feedback to the facility is very useful in fine tuning the training. Correct the behavior without attacking the individual. It isn't about punishment; it is about education, learning, and adapting. As the leaders at MSP seem to be on top of this one I will close it. Kyle Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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