RUDE ATC'S

[Pete Emmert 1159271]

How do you report to an ATC supervisor that a trainee is rude and thinks he knows it all?

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

when it happens. type .wallop on your client and a sup will contact you if there is one on.

 

if nobody answers. if its on text, take a screenshot of it, send it to the VP of supervisors or directly to the ARTCC/FIR staff by going to theyre website and getting the contact info

 

on voice, leave feedback at theyre website and ask that a staff member get in contact with you for more info

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Just submit feedback. Are you sure he was being rude? The ATC may have been a trainee, but your CID starts with 115.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

what does that have to do with anything?

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Well, he says the ATC is inexperienced, but he's brand-new. Also, the titles topic is in all caps.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

so because someone is new its ok for someone to mistreat them? check out the CoC and see if it sais anything about new members being able to be mistreated.

 

being new doesnt mean you arent smart enough to know when someone is being rude

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Of course it's not ok to mistreat new people. But he may have misinterpreted a standard instruction as rudeness.

[Alex Bailey 969331]

He may have 15,000 real world hours and his CID on here means nothing. Context.

 

Darrol, which is your real name? Your signature or your registered name with VATSIM?

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Signature, why?

[Norman Blackburn]

Registered: Darrol Lakro

 

Signature: Darrol Larrok

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Yup, I mistyped it when I registered.

 

Problem?

[Donovan Brown 1159419]

Are you sure he was rude?lol

[Norman Blackburn]

Yup, I mistyped it when I registered.

 

Problem?

 

One of the very few things we ask is people use their real name. I've asked somebody from Membership to contact you to fix the error. It would have been really nice if you had let somebody know of your typo.

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Ok, thanks. It's really not such a big deal. When will I hear from them? Can they just change it?

[Richard Gerrish]

you might also check out servinfo or another tool and see if the controller is alone working SMT or if there's a mentor(_M_) or instructor(_I_) working with the student. if its the latter it may well be getting taken care of at that very moment, but it doesn't hurt to PM the staffer working with the student to have friendly conversation about what was said ect. if that doesn't seem to help by all means shoot an email to the Artcc's TA, ATM and/or leave constructive feedback for the controller at the Artcc website.

[Pete Emmert 1159271]

I was VFR at KLGB. Klgb sits inside cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B air. Atc instructed me to STAY OUT of cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] b then gave me clearance to go. After Left cross, and then hdg 120, south I picked up my gps for destination. At fl030, he asked me what I was doing... then proceeded to tell me not to read back instructions if I didn't know what I was doing, I replied, "Sir, klgb is inside Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B, you cleared me to go, knowing what my intentions where" he started telling me that I don't understand and that I shouldn't be on here. I have a few flights here and there since I signed up, and none of them where problematic.

[Richard Gerrish]

I was VFR at KLGB. Klgb sits inside cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B air. Atc instructed me to STAY OUT of cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] b then gave me clearance to go. After Left cross, and then hdg 120, south I picked up my gps for destination. At fl030, he asked me what I was doing... then proceeded to tell me not to read back instructions if I didn't know what I was doing, I replied, "Sir, klgb is inside Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B, you cleared me to go, knowing what my intentions where" he started telling me that I don't understand and that I shouldn't be on here. I have a few flights here and there since I signed up, and none of them where problematic.

 

Long Beach sits under a bravo shelf that starts at 5000, where were you heading?

[Calvin Shultz 939902]

FL030? You mean 3000? Did you look at a chart....? As stated before, it is under the Bravo shelf.

 

http://www.skyvector.com

[Larry James 901346]

Just submit feedback. Are you sure he was being rude? The ATC may have been a trainee, but your CID starts with 115.

 

what does that have to do with anything?

 

The first message I reported on the forum was a complaint about a controller. Everybody was very cordial to me. But by the third time I flew on the network I realized the controller wasn’t being rude.

 

I thought it was the controllers’ job to provide ILS frequencies and to give the pilots and intersection about 27 miles out (like the default ATC).

 

At one point the controller told me to let him know when the airport was in site. Then he cleared me to directly land. I hadn’t ever done it before without autopilot and had a very rough landing.

 

The second time I was landed at his facility when I realized he was about to do it again I told him he’d have to give me vectors far enough out for me to intercept the ILS with autopilot. He said it was a clear day, I wouldn’t have any problems and he would stay with me to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ist the landing.

 

He also gave me his email address and told me he’d be glad to give me [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance privately if I needed help with landing, procedures and handling the plane.

 

There was a time I thought the controllers were rude by talking fast and I was shy about asking them over and over to repeat. I soon learnt to understand what they were saying by knowing what to expect. I also find all the controllers to cordially type in the instructions that I have a problem following.

 

There’s a chance that Darrol might recall some of his initial experience with some of the controllers.

 

I’m glad to see a number of users have given the user procedures for reporting the rudeness. I believe it’s something we can benefit by having a few users to might take a moment and think about the overall spirit of our network and suggest to a new user to be open to a chance they might have misunderstood something.

 

I hope a user will not be turned off by the wording of the VATSIM Quick Start Guide suggesting that a user becomes familiar with their aircraft by practicing offline or many of the other guides suggesting that the user starts out at a facility that isn’t busy. I’m sure most Flight Simulator enthusiasts are anxious to jump in were the most action and activity is. That certainly described me when I started.

 

I’m sure if a controller suggested to a new user to start out at a less busy airport to get some experience, his words might appear rude as if he’s saying get off the network. But there is a chance that he might actually be trying to offer a helpful suggestion in the same spirit that the PRC and other lessons for new pilots are written.

 

-- L. James

 

--

L. D. James

[email protected]

http://www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[Tom Solon]

Dear Pete,

 

I was the controller you referenced in this thread. I'm so sorry that you felt my controlling was rude and inappropriate. I realize in looking back on it that my tone could have been perceived as rude and uncalled for - that was never my intention.The miscommunication happeened at the outset when you were instructed to "remain outside the Los Angeles Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo airspace at all times." I asked if you "were familiar with the Los Angeles Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo airspace" and you said you were. At that point I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umed that you knew that LGB is actually below the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B, and that you don't necessarily need to enter it. When I gave you that departure to the south, it doesn't mean you're cleared into the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] bravo, unless you hear the phrase "cleared into the Los Angeles Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo airspace." Nonetheless, I understand that for a new pilot, that can easily be misinterpreted. I should have been more clear in my instructions to help you understand exactly what it is I expected you to do, so we both could have been on the same page. For more information on Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace and VFR flying around ZLA and VATSIM in general, I highly suggest you check out the ZLA Pilot Certification Program, particularly the materials [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with the V-3 rating. I would love to have you back in my sky sometime to try your flight again.

 

Here's a link to the V-3 pilot cert: http://pilotcerts.laartcc.org/object/v3Rating.html

[Alistair Thomson]

Nice one. Tom!

 

But I also agree with those who say that just because a member has a high membership number (and uses caps to type the subject line ) doesn't mean that this member is wrong by default. Some folks might think that taking that attitude is being rude and ignorant.

 

And why is it that I and many others spotted the difference between Larrok and Lakro some considerable time ago, but the owner of that name/sig didn't? And when was the last time you typoed your own name so badly, and didn't notice?

 

Sorry, I shouldn't be getting into that… none of my business… just p****s me off.

[tony moseley 1088954]

i thought the rude bit was the ATC telling him that he shouldn't be on here, it all goes downhill after that has been said.

 

i agree with ernesto being new dosen't mean you aren't smart enough to know when someone is rude, no matter how veiled the rudeness is.

 

darrol you seem to be getting a bit of a bashing on the forums with your opinions, i find your posts honest and refreshing to read even though i certainly don't agree with them all, you are not 100% politcally correct but a straightforward honest opinon is something i welcome

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

darrol you seem to be getting a bit of a bashing on the forums with your opinions, i find your posts honest and refreshing to read even though i certainly don't agree with them all, you are not 100% politcally correct but a straightforward honest opinon is something i welcome

 

Thanks

 

Alistair, I did notice. I didn't see it as a major issue, the right name was in the signature and I feared that I would find myself in a bureaucratic mess if I asked for it to be fixed.

[Jesse Eslava 1076071]

He may have 15,000 real world hours and his CID on here means nothing. Context.

 

I agree 1000% Alex!

[Larry James 901346]

I notice from Richard’s comments in some of the other threads that we are having problems keeping controllers. I believe part of the reason is that the controllers get too much flack and find it hard to enjoy what they signed up for.

 

In this case, Darrol and I perceived the controller might not have been as offensive as perceived by a newbie and felt the newbie should consider a little bit of consideration that he might have made a mistake. …Just a consideration.

 

The controller actually came back in this case and confirmed what I thought.

 

For a long time I had looked forward to the day when I’d have more time, to becoming a controller myself. Some of the recent threads make that aspiration less appealing to me at this time.

 

I thought controllers had more influent over the space they were [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned. Listening to LiveATC it appears that they do, even though RW people in the aviation field has mentioned that they don’t. They just serve the whim of the pilots.

 

I guess if the pilots on VATSIM were as trained and experienced as the real world pilots, then there would be more order in the controller’s space. But taking in consider the mission of VATSIM (which I agree with and hope doesn’t change… that beginners of all levels are welcome to fly and aren’t required to have any formal training), I find something seriously missing when the controllers can’t be expected to suggest some expected order in his space to someone going so far against the grain.

 

With time I might look at things difference while considering this new information that I’m learning. But I thought, by looking at the newness of this pilot (and recalling my first days) there was a good chance the newbie might have misunderstood something coming from the formally trained controller how had invested a lot into this network.

 

For me controlling on VATSIM isn’t as appealing as it had been when is so clear that the controllers are so subject to the whims of a newbie that might not have a clue.

 

Again, I don’t blame a newbie for being a newbie and would always be glad to work with them. But I would hope that they will be patient to learn a little bit more about the expected order with each visit to my space (if I were a controller), or to VATSIM in general.

 

While I don’t aspire so much to work up to being a controller on VATSIM, I still think more emphasis should be placed and expected that to some degree the controllers will have some element of teaching for the pilots that are welcomed to our network without any formal training. This way more order would be achieved in general with the whole VATSIM network. This is order that other pilots will soon enjoy in uncontrolled space as well. I believe we’d start retaining controllers better, as they would soon start to enjoy more of what they aspired to do.

 

-- L. James

 

--

L. D. James

[email protected]

http://www.apollo3.com/~ljames