RUDE ATC'S

[Andreas Fuchs]

You can add "RMK/NEWBIE" to your flightplan remarks field. This is common practice.

[Craig Watt 1432888]

Thanks Kieron and Andreas,

 

As I said I am only at the beginning and there is so much to learn, I will certainly take your feedback on board and notify newbie in the remarks section when filing a flight plan.

 

Thanks Guys.

 

Craig

[Andreas Fuchs]

Btw., for realism it is a good idea to start all flights by researching realistic and valid IFR-routes through http://vroute.net . All for free. It will also show you where ATC has booked a station.

[Craig Watt 1432888]

Btw., for realism it is a good idea to start all flights by researching realistic and valid IFR-routes through http://vroute.net . All for free. It will also show you where ATC has booked a station.

 

I use payware for my routes which is Navigraph £10 (Roughly)per month and I am on the most up to date cycle, It then automatically sends my route to VATSIM through PFPX . My route was perfect Andreas as I said after I challenged him on his remarks towards me which he sent through Private message he wouldn't communicate with me. I can send my route so everyone can see it was legit routing.

[Ryan Geckler]

Btw., for realism it is a good idea to start all flights by researching realistic and valid IFR-routes through http://vroute.net . All for free. It will also show you where ATC has booked a station.

 

I use payware for my routes which is Navigraph £10 (Roughly)per month and I am on the most up to date cycle, It then automatically sends my route to VATSIM through PFPX . My route was perfect Andreas as I said after I challenged him on his remarks towards me which he sent through Private message he wouldn't communicate with me. I can send my route so everyone can see it was legit routing.

 

How are you sure your route was perfect? Are you a controller in the area you were flying and knew everything about all of his traffic?

[Trevor Hannant]

I use payware for my routes which is Navigraph £10 (Roughly)per month and I am on the most up to date cycle, It then automatically sends my route to VATSIM through PFPX .

 

Hi Craig.

 

Firstly, sorry to hear of your issue however good to see you've had some good experiences from my fellow controllers in the UK! Remember to provide positive feedback where you've had a good experience also (for the UK, this can be done here - https://core.vatsim.uk/mship/feedback/new).

 

In terms of the quote above, I think what you've got there is the FMC database which is simply an up to date database of airports, waypoints, airways etc - it's not a route database. Also, software like PFPX are only as good as the data put into them. Routes that were put through there some time back may no longer be valid as waypoints change, airways are added/removed/renamed etc so if you've picked a pre-filed flightplan from some time back, it may very well be out of date.

 

Out of interest, can you post up the flightplan you filed?

[Andreas Fuchs]

It was probably a flight from EGSS to EGAA, filed route UTAVA Q75 BUZAD T420 WELIN UN57 TNT UL28 AGLIL M146 ERDUV Z198 MASOP DCT NELBO P6 BEL DCT

 

This routing is not valid, when putting it through Eurocontrol's route validator you get a load of error messages, see here:

ERRORS AT FL = 260:

(FPL-LOT001-IN -B738/M-DGFIRSWYH/L -EGSS0850 -N0430F260 UTAVA Q75 BUZAD T420 WELIN UN57 TNT UL28 AGLIL M146 ERDUV Z198 MASOP DCT NELBO P6 BEL DCT -EGAA0109 -PBN/A1B2C1D1L1O1S2 REG/DABCD NAV/GPS DOF/180905) PROF195: ERDUV Z198 MASOP DOES NOT EXIST IN FL RANGE F255..F999

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA ERDUV Z198 MASOP IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2895B] Z198 ERDUV MASOP

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA TNT DESIG DIGMA KOLID RODOL WAL EGCC29G IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2822C] DIGMA M146 ERDUV ONLY AVAILABLE

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA RODOL UL28 MCT IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2321B] RODOL UL28 MCT NOT AVAILABLE

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA DIGMA IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2822E] DIGMA M146 ERDUV ONLY AVAILABLE

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA ERDUV Z198 MASOP IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2895A] Z198 ERDUV MASOP

 

vroute does provide you with a valid route: UTAVA Q75 BUZAD T420 WELIN UN57 TNT DCT RODOL UM65 TENSO L603 REMSI M147 ROBOP M146 IPSET P6 BEL

 

Just copy-paste those flightplans into PFPX and use them there for your fuel calculations and to pre-file your plan with VATSIM. It's a small thing, but sometimes it can make a huge difference. vroute is free.

[Craig Watt 1432888]

It was probably a flight from EGSS to EGAA, filed route UTAVA Q75 BUZAD T420 WELIN UN57 TNT UL28 AGLIL M146 ERDUV Z198 MASOP DCT NELBO P6 BEL DCT

 

This routing is not valid, when putting it through Eurocontrol's route validator you get a load of error messages, see here:

ERRORS AT FL = 260:

(FPL-LOT001-IN -B738/M-DGFIRSWYH/L -EGSS0850 -N0430F260 UTAVA Q75 BUZAD T420 WELIN UN57 TNT UL28 AGLIL M146 ERDUV Z198 MASOP DCT NELBO P6 BEL DCT -EGAA0109 -PBN/A1B2C1D1L1O1S2 REG/DABCD NAV/GPS DOF/180905) PROF195: ERDUV Z198 MASOP DOES NOT EXIST IN FL RANGE F255..F999

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA ERDUV Z198 MASOP IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2895B] Z198 ERDUV MASOP

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA TNT DESIG DIGMA KOLID RODOL WAL EGCC29G IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2822C] DIGMA M146 ERDUV ONLY AVAILABLE

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA RODOL UL28 MCT IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2321B] RODOL UL28 MCT NOT AVAILABLE

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA DIGMA IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2822E] DIGMA M146 ERDUV ONLY AVAILABLE

PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA ERDUV Z198 MASOP IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[EG2895A] Z198 ERDUV MASOP

 

vroute does provide you with a valid route: UTAVA Q75 BUZAD T420 WELIN UN57 TNT DCT RODOL UM65 TENSO L603 REMSI M147 ROBOP M146 IPSET P6 BEL

 

Just copy-paste those flightplans into PFPX and use them there for your fuel calculations and to pre-file your plan with VATSIM. It's a small thing, but sometimes it can make a huge difference. vroute is free.

 

It was From EHAM-EGAA, Though I will certainly take your advice though because now that you mention when I validate the flight plan on PFPX sometimes I do get an error message. Something that I will take on and put into practice going forward with my vatsim career Andreas. Its always nice to be pointed in the right direction by experienced users like yourself.

[Craig Watt 1432888]

I use payware for my routes which is Navigraph £10 (Roughly)per month and I am on the most up to date cycle, It then automatically sends my route to VATSIM through PFPX .

 

Hi Craig.

 

Firstly, sorry to hear of your issue however good to see you've had some good experiences from my fellow controllers in the UK! Remember to provide positive feedback where you've had a good experience also (for the UK, this can be done here - https://core.vatsim.uk/mship/feedback/new).

 

In terms of the quote above, I think what you've got there is the FMC database which is simply an up to date database of airports, waypoints, airways etc - it's not a route database. Also, software like PFPX are only as good as the data put into them. Routes that were put through there some time back may no longer be valid as waypoints change, airways are added/removed/renamed etc so if you've picked a pre-filed flightplan from some time back, it may very well be out of date.

 

Out of interest, can you post up the flightplan you filed?

 

 

Trevor, much apologies I only seen your message. For sure I will post positive feedback, again it’s just a learning curve at this minute so I when I establish how to post positive feedback and I will, listen guys I Didn’t want to post this here, it’s not my style, in fact I think it’s the 1st time I have ever had to write a complaint about anyone or anything. I will start with your link. Listen guys yous have really helped me get a better understanding as what we all agree is an absolutely incredible service.

 

I will go about VATSIM in the same way respectful to others at all times, I won’t ever go and look for an arguement, though when it comes to in my view abusive behaviour then I will of course stand up for myself, if I spoke like someone in a disrespectful manner then I would have apologised.

 

Hopefully I will catch up with see yous in the air soon, most likely on Unicom 122.8 haha.

 

Thanks again for your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance guys.

 

 

Craig

[Florian Harms]

Hi Craig and all other.

 

Craig: never give up. If you are addicted like most of us is, this hobby can stay for a veeeery long time. I started more than a decade with VATSIM, and I think i had less than 10 days not liking the experience. Sometimes chaos is taking over for sure, but hey, we are all humans (simply ask the pilots flying thru my airspace while I am controlling) .

 

I fully remember my first online flights and the laughter I've heard asking for "progressive taxi"... But that's not the end of the world. For me it was the beginning.

 

Some tips for new pilots or those new to this hobby:

 

[*] take easy flights, easy aircrafts and easy airports in the beginning.

[*] Don't expect that you know everything, you don't, nobody does. Becoming a pilot is a long term training (simply ask real pilots).

[*] Don't think just for your personal flight, think for the area around you too. All members are equal online. But we need to take care that others in the area can enjoy the hobby too.

[*] Use flight plan services. Don't work thru "validation" and so on, many services deliver quite good flight plans (e.g. https://vau.aero/route/ run by friends in the Ukraine).

[*] avoid events in the beginning. They definitely are great fun, but even more chaos than normal flights. On our big events all participants are even on a higher stress level. Just consider that we have to work with partly higher traffic than in reality.

[*] have a look at the weather.

[*] Sometimes simply listen what the traffic in front of you gets while flying to the same destination. The chances are high that you'll get similar instructions.

[*] think a bit ahead. It is quite normal to reduce the speed on finals, but listen to ATC, he might need to bring another aircraft in front or behind your own one. Speed restrictions are important. Not too fast and especially not too slow.

[*] Last but not least: talk if you are facing problems. The biggest error would be to remain silent.

[*] and if something real problematic occurs, call for a supervisor. You can do that directly with your pilots client. a short info would be fine with sending that call.

 

Let me state this again: there are no 100% perfect pilots or controller. Neither here, not in reality. We all strive to reach a high level in our hobby, that's true, but that's simply it. We all enjoy the same hobbies (and you won't believe how many today's highest ranked controllers I had the joy to see on their first steps finding out that an approach to a field becomes complicate if they still fly with M 0.8 in 2000 ft and 2 DME away from the runway. We all had this problems, we all learned these first steps. It is part of our hobby.

 

So, keep flying, enjoy like we all do, and sometimes it would be great for EVERYONE to simply think they are sitting on the other side of the desk. Simply think for the other members in your area. Help them or give them space...

 

Flo

[Trevor Hannant]

Craig (and anyone else who's reading) - if you're flying in or through the UK's airspace regularly, save this link as a bookmark and refer to it for any UK airspace routing:

 

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/srd/SRD_Spreadsheet.xls

 

That's the official docomeent from the UK's main ATC provider, NATS. It lists preferred routings at different levels (along with notes governing when they can be used etc) and is always up to date. So for your EGSS-EGAA flight, this will give you a complete flight plan. For EHAM-EGAA, it will cover the route from the waypoint that you enter UK's airspace to your destination. Use that and you won't go wrong!

[Andreas Fuchs]

That's why I prefer using vroute: there's no need to save links to local AIPs (or similar docomeents with preferred routes).

[Craig Watt 1432888]

That's why I prefer using vroute: there's no need to save links to local AIPs (or similar docomeents with preferred routes).

 

 

Saved Trevor, it will give me some night time reading this evening.

 

Regarding vroute Andreas, have you tried the payware version of it? Just wondering if it worth buying.

[Andreas Fuchs]

No, I have not tried it. Since you have bought PFPX already, you will probably not need the Premium version of vroute. Otherwise I would have suggested considering it.

[Craig Watt 1432888]

No, I have not tried it. Since you have bought PFPX already, you will probably not need the Premium version of vroute. Otherwise I would have suggested considering it.

 

Thanks man!