VATUSA Staffs Up Every Night of the Week!

[Lance Williams]

Very interesting idea, Kevin. I guess whether or not we did something like this would come down to weighing its pros and the cons. Is the benefit of rotating the nights equal to or greater than the possible confusion or traffic incconsistencies it might cause for pilots? Something to consider. If you guys think rotating nights like this is the best course of action, let me know and maybe we can post a formal poll or something. Feedback appreciated!

 

If it's scheduled in advance and displayed where it can easily be found, it might work. I'd guess planning the nights at least 3 months in advance would be necessary though so people have an idea of what night is what.

[Bryan Wollenberg 810243]

Is the benefit of rotating the nights equal to or greater than the possible confusion or traffic incconsistencies it might cause for pilots?

 

I think we're making it harder than it really is. If we did want to rotate nights (which I think is a really good idea by the way), isn't it just a matter of putting the dates on the calendar, or maybe even on a special place of the front page of the VATUSA website or such? I can't imagine it being THAT confusing, when you could just go to the website and look it up.

[Chris Renne 818571]

BW- It would not be hard at all for pilots to read the calendar and fly accordingly. I was just wondering how great an effect you guys think consistency in scheduling has on traffic...i.e. how many pilots will go and check the schedule every week rather vs. just expect to fly east every Monday, south every Tuesday..etc. For me, whether it's Monday night or a Thursday night doesn't really make a difference as weekdays are all tough.

[Garry Morris 920567]

The upside to rotating days occasionally is that I know many controllers in ZAB, myself included, are unable to control on Wednesdays for various RL scheduling conflicts. By occasionally (not every week mind you, but perhaps quarterly) rotating days, you might get a better overall response as those with scheduling conflicts would be able to participate at least sometimes.

[Russell Creel 835096]

For schedule conflicts .. there is always the Friday Nigth Frenzy ..

[Ross Carlson]

For schedule conflicts .. there is always the Friday Nigth Frenzy ..

 

Unless Friday night doesn't work for those people either.

 

I'm personally in favor of keeping the nights consistent from week-to-week. I believe that the reason these regional nights work is because people come to expect decent staffing in a certain region on a certain day. They don't even have to think about it. They don't have to check a schedule on a website ... they just login and voila, there's staffing right where they expect it.

 

Rotating the nights while posting the rotation well in advance on a website would work, but I don't feel it would work as well as maintaining consistency in the weekdays for each region.

[Andrew Miller 873677]

I mostly agree. Whenever I fly I don't even look to see what controllers are online, I just pick an airport I want to fly to.

[Bryan Wollenberg 810243]

CR, gotcha...thought it was some logistical issue or something.

 

My reasoning for rotating the night is really 2-fold.

 

First off, as far as traffic is concerned, some days are quite frankly just plain slow, and no amount of regional events is going to change that. At least with a rotating schedule, no specific region is stuck with a slow day vs. a decent day, etc. etc.

 

Secondly, from a Controller's point of view, I know that when our regionals used to be on Wednesday night, I could not attend. I made a few, but for the most part, I had other commitments on Wednesday nights. I'm sure everyone is in the same boat. We're all busy people. But at least with a rotating schedule, pilots and controllers who may not be available on a certain day, will still be able to control/fly say the next week, or the week after, instead of being permanently left out and unable to control the events. On a non-rotating schedule, we might just get stuck with the same ol' controllers and pilots week after week. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's open these up to a more diverse audience. Keeping everything on the same day has the potential of really limiting who can/can't participate.

 

I think the benefits of a rotating schedule far outweigh the negatives. So far, the only negatives I've seen are that pilots won't be able to remember what regional is on which day from one week to the next. Like I said, it's a matter of just plain looking the info up somewhere. This isn't rocket science.

[Ross Carlson]

So far, the only negatives I've seen are that pilots won't be able to remember what regional is on which day from one week to the next. Like I said, it's a matter of just plain looking the info up somewhere. This isn't rocket science.

 

No, it isn't rocket science. Neither, however, is looking up a preferred route before you file. Does that mean everyone does it? We all know the answer.

 

Simply posting the schedule on the website won't create the same level of awareness as having the same region [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to the same weekday every week. There's just no arguing that point. The question is, as Bryan alluded to, whether or not the benefits of rotating the days outweigh the disadvantages. Until Bryan's last post here, I didn't think so, but he has a a great point that if the schedule is fixed, we'll get the same pilots and controllers each time. So now I'm not so sure ... maybe we should rotate. And if we do, I think that we can mitigate the negative effects by having a web calendar as well as regular, prominent forum postings and perhaps even email broadcasts. That way we'll catch the group of users that views the site, as well as the group that only looks at the forums, and even those that don't look at either, if we use email broadcasts. Maybe what we need is a way for users to subscribe to these broadcasts ...

[Jeff Turner]

I know that at one point, years back. We rotated at the beginning of the year so that no one kept the same nights. But, I also remember some serious griping when that happened to because some of the ATM's didn't like the possibility of losing traffic on certain evenings.

 

I think we should rotate. What frequency? Yearly? Quarterly?

[Tom Meyer 944876]

If you are taking votes, quarterly.

[Bryan Wollenberg 810243]

Ross, I can definitely agree that it would be easier for the pilot to just know that say Saturday night is xxx Regional Night. Definitely makes sense. But surely the pilots who are flying on xxx night specifically because it is Regional Night will go to a website. Well...maybe not but I can hope right?

 

I'm not sure how doable it is, but yearly, quarterly, whateverly is still not enough. Even with quarterly, you're talking the same schedule for 3 months. And then what after that? You go to another day, and by the end of the year, your region will have covered 4 days. I'm all for a weekly rotation. You just move up a day the next week.

 

Week1

 

SATURDAY - HONOLULU SPOTLIGHT

SUNDAY - ANCHORAGE SPOTLIGHT

MONDAY - EASTERN REGIONALS

TUESDAY - SOUTHERN REGIONALS

WEDNESDAY - CENTRAL REGIONALS

THURSDAY - WESTERN REGIONALS

 

 

 

Week2

 

SATURDAY - WESTERN REGIONALS

SUNDAY - HONOLULU SPOTLIGHT

MONDAY - ANCHORAGE SPOTLIGHT

TUESDAY - EASTERN REGIONALS

WEDNESDAY - SOUTHERN REGIONALS

THURSDAY - CENTRAL REGIONALS

 

 

 

Week3

 

SATURDAY - CENTRAL REGIONALS

SUNDAY - WESTERN REGIONALS

MONDAY - HONOLULU SPOTLIGHT

TUESDAY - ANCHORAGE SPOTLIGHT

WEDNESDAY - EASTERN REGIONALS

THURSDAY - SOUTHERN REGIONALS

 

 

And repeat ad libitum...

 

 

If Anchorage and Honolulu need to stay in their own spots on the weekend permanently (not sure why), then the 4 regions can rotate among the 4 days, resulting in every ARTCC covering a different day each week during the month (more or less).

 

Now yeah, I can just see the posts saying how confusing that is, but it's really not. Have a calendar with this stuff on for 6 months, a year, whatever. Put it right on the front page of the VATUSA site. It really wouldn't be THAT bad, and would be the best approach for getting a diverse group of pilots and controllers, if that's in fact what we want to facilitate.

[Ross Carlson]

If we do rotate, I agree that it should be weekly. Each week, shift everything by one day. That way, the benefits realized by rotating the schedule are realized much faster than if the rotation was monthly or quarterly. If we were to rotate quarterly, for example, then if my region was set up for Wednesday night (a night where I am scheduled to lose money in a poker game each week) then I wouldn't be able to participate for a full three months. If we rotate weekly, then I'm only out once a month or so, which is much better than a three month stretch at a time.

 

As a side note, if we do the rotation, and VATSIM/VATUSA isn't willing, I'd be willing to set up a mailing list that people can subscribe to in order to have reminders emailed to them at certain intervals.

[Thomas Parker]

Here's my 2 cents.

 

Friday night should definately remain Friday night frenzy.

 

As far as the other nights, I believe they should rotate. My opinion is on a monthly basis, but I don't have a strong opinion on that one. There are slower nights than others. And people (controllers & pilots both) have lives outside VATSIM. Pilots are more flexible about where they can fly, but I think that the controllers stuck on slow nights will lose interest over time. And people with outside commitments that are fixed would never get the opportunity to participate in their regional event.

 

A schedule in a well-known place would be needed. But it's not enough to simply post a schedule. There needs to be a fair bit of active campaining and advertising of the event until it becomes established and until that well-known place becomes.... well-known. The advertising will also help build the momentum. Something new like this is fragile. A couple of bad nights could cause this to falter all around. I need to get the feeling that this is well supported before I begin to believe that it's here to stay. And that happens with the advertising.

 

For example, VCAir's TGIF didn't just appear overnight. It grew over time. And I'm sure it took time for everyone to learn that you goto vcair.com for the schedule.

 

How my logic would work... This is a VATUSA event. I would expect the schedule to be on the VATUSA website. But the advertising should be done on VATUSA, VATCAN, VATMEX, VATSIM-UK, etc, etc, and most importantly on VATSIM.net itself. NOTAMS, forum posts, Announcements, etc. If y'all are like me, then each of you have your favorite spots within VATSIM. If the organizers want this to succeed, the it's up to them to go out and reach those different favorite spots.

 

My 2 cents,

Tom

[Chris Renne 818571]

Some awesome ideas here. Let me offer my two cents and perhaps a balanced medium between all the contributions thus far...I propose...

 

Friday, Saturday, Sunday remain fixed on their designated events (Friday's the best night for a frenzy , Sat and Sun are much needed traffic nights for HNL and ANC). So then we have MON, TUE, WED, and THU to deal with...4 nights.

 

The calendar we have now barely lets me post the events we have now, and certainly won't automatically rotate each week. That'd be a pretty confusing thing for all. What I propose is that we rotate events every time the season changes (i.e. quarterly).

 

So for example, now we're in the fall season. Come December 21st, Western Region gets MON, NE gets TUE, etc.

Come March 21st, Central Region gets MON, Western Region gets TUE, etc.

 

So by the end of the year, all main regions have rotated through each day and FNF, ANC, and HNL remain in good slots where they belong.

 

 

 

What do you guys think...could we make this work (well)?

Edited November 4, 2005 at 01:36 PM by Guest

[Thomas Parker]

I don't know if my ERJ will make it to Honolulu. I need to go run some calculations!

 

Chris, are you one of the organizers? Sounds like you've got a decent proposal. Honestly, you'll continue to get opinions to the end of time. My boss always makes me do this.. "Give me three solutions. Let me make the choice" I throw the same idea to you. Develop a handful of solutions (say 3-5). Then run a poll. Use the one with highest response. You'll never make everyone happy, but that might help you make the most people happy.

 

Good Luck.

 

Tom

[Chris Renne 818571]

Tom-

Yeah I am one of the organizers...sorry I keep forgetting I don't have it automatically configured to add my sig at the end of messages. Anyway - I was thinking about sending an email out to the ARTCCs later today to solicit feedback on a) the nights so far as a whole, b) changing times for certain regions, and c) our ideas on rotating the nights. I'll keep you guys in the loop as to what we find.

[Thomas Parker]

Cool. I'll look forward to hearing the answer. BTW, I hope I didn't come on too strong. I think this idea is great and will be very supportive of it. I wasn't trying to tell you how to do your job. Just trying to be helpful. Tell me when I've said enough...

 

Tom

[Chris Renne 818571]

Honestly - I never thought that. Any feedback we can get on this stuff is appreciated. Let's see what our ARTCCs think of the rotations and some time changes. Hopefully we'll have a solid plan of action by early next week.

[Ian Elchitz 810151]

If the regional nights start some activity for controllers and pilots then I suppose it is a good thing.

 

But Honolulu and Anchorage night? No offense meant to those who work hard for those areas - but why take two of the busier nights and give them to areas that traditionally have no traffic and no coverage?

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

I think rotating weekly is probably easier to remember. I doubt December 21st I'm suddenly going to remember, "Oh yeah, the regional nights shift!" If it's weekly it may be easier to get into a routine, and a continuous cycle. Plus this way, pilots and controllers are given more of a chance to participate (ie, if they can't do Monday nights, they don't need to wait a month).

 

As always, 2 cents

[Kevin Noe 895858]

The rotation should be weekly or maybe every other week. Doing it quarterly is just a waste of time and you are going to make more problems for your self. And frankly I wouldn’t want to be stuck on a Wednesday night for 3 months. For saturday and sunday yes Honolulu and Anchorage dont get much traffic as is but i think they should be in the rotation. If we are not going to do that at least mabye give the other regions a saturday or sunday once a month so say southern is up for a tuesday next week take Honolulu and put them on tuesday and southern on Saturday. Then next week Ahchorage will switch with someone. This way they get 2 saturday/sunday a month plus 2 weekdays. And the 4 other regions will have 1 sat or sun with 3 weekdays.

[Chris Renne 818571]

Ok so maybe weekly it is.

 

I think HNL and ANC are important nights. Certainly, those two ARTCCs are not cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ified as the ONLY places to fly and the ONLY places to staff up. Posting those two nights is really just a publicity thing- hoping to get traffic to areas that, as I've been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ured by both ARTCCs, will be staffed. Hope that clarifies, Ian.

[Ross Carlson]

If the regional nights start some activity for controllers and pilots then I suppose it is a good thing.

 

But Honolulu and Anchorage night? No offense meant to those who work hard for those areas - but why take two of the busier nights and give them to areas that traditionally have no traffic and no coverage?

 

I'd say you answered your own question. Recurring events like this one are made to encourage staffing and traffic where there otherwise might not be so much.

[Russell Creel 835096]

The important point is that Saturday and Sunday are not "GIVEN" to Hawaii and Alaska.

 

Pilots can fly, and ATC can control any place they like any time they like. Its just that Hawaii and Alaska are encouraged to be online those nights, and us pilots will now have a known time when we can expect to see ATC so we can plan to be there.

 

I like to fly Alaska and I'ld be very happy to know a time when I could usually expect to see ATC online, be it Saturday or not.

 

I doubt other Regions will suddenly be left BARE of traffic on the busiest nights of the year because everyone is off flying the land of the Midnight Sun.