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UK (?) Plugin creating issues


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The easiest way of doing so is providing a suitable replacement which is currently in development.

If that is the case, I don't see that it is open source... which goes against the grain a bit. One rule for one, another rule for another one?

 

Being in development, doesn't necessarily mean that they've got code for it, which roughly works and is ready to share. Personally, just like many developers, and probably you, I don't release my in-development code, until I'm happy that it's at least a base from what I can expand from. Presumably, that's exactly what the VATSIM-UK team are doing.

 

Remember, try not to get salty over them pulling your plugin from their controller packs.

Kind Regards,

Kieran Cross,

 

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Cleared to prevent confusion.

 

This post stated that EGLL controllers and mentors had been asked to avoid using the plugin where possible, and has been removed since the issue has been fixed by the developer (see below)!

Edited by Guest

Oliver Rhodes

General Manager (ATC)

Training Department

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Yeah, if you do encounter the bug again, please check that the controller is using the latest build. I've controlled with the latest build this morning and it seems it is fixed. I couldn't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign a squawk/altitude unless I was tracking the aircraft.

Network Supervisor | C1 | P1

VATSIM UK

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Yeah, if you do encounter the bug again, please check that the controller is using the latest build. I've controlled with the latest build this morning and it seems it is fixed. I couldn't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign a squawk/altitude unless I was tracking the aircraft.

 

So the bug was fixed, without needing to have the VATSIM network protocol changed?

Kind Regards,

Kieran Cross,

 

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Yeah, if you do encounter the bug again, please check that the controller is using the latest build. I've controlled with the latest build this morning and it seems it is fixed. I couldn't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign a squawk/altitude unless I was tracking the aircraft.

 

So the bug was fixed, without needing to have the VATSIM network protocol changed?

No... it's yet another attempt to workaround it without needing to have the VATSIM network protocol changed...

Craig Phillips

 

Senior Student - UK South East - Mentor

Developer: Aircraft Situation Editor (ASE)

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That's no excuse. Somehow, it worked a few years back. There might have been changes. But you can't expect the network or client to change the way you like it. The plugin is at the lowest design hierarchy, so you have to cope with the conditions. If you can't, deactivate those services until you fixed it!

I find this hard to believe anyway. There were similar issues when a mode S plugin was introduced setting squawk 1000 all over. But it was fixed within a few weeks. And as I understand, your plugin is even working with a server where [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments could be cross checked. However it's not done. Did you ask for support regarding squawk [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment from Pierre?

 

To conclude: I seems you are not really interested in a solution acceptable for both VCA users and such controllers which are not using this plugin. You are just waiting the network or client to fullfil your requirements. This won't bring us a solution. It's up to you, Craig, to fix the mess you are causing!

 

It's really a shame one person can cause such negative network experience to so many other members.

 

I have to agree with Jonas here, Craig, "doing it on your free time" does not excuse you from any form of responsibility, and your plugin has been causing a nuisance for as long as I've been controlling, yet I've seen little effort on your part to help. When my plugin kept [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning squawks all over the place, it was a shame for me, and I tried to react as fast as I can to fix the problem. By creating a plugin, your know you are making something that's unmanaged, on a broken protocol using a broken api of a wobbly controller client, you must do as much as you can to prevent problems.

 

I'm not blaming you for making a mistake using an api you thought would work, far from that, but I did see a very very slow response from you to try and stop the problem, and instead of pulling off the plugin while it was causing problems, you left it there with the excuse that the UK controller community keeps saying "it takes too much time to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign squawks". Which in the end is really a false excuse, we should all be using the range system EuroScope has, because we can't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign realistic squawks until we have a global or at least regional squawk [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment system. Moreover we don't need a realistic squawk [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment system, our traffic density and complexity does not require it, mode A codes are even disappearing in real life with mode S!

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That's very harsh, considering I code the plugin in my own free time... I don't get paid for it. I'm guessing you're the guy who's .walloping everyone for using VCA that is now a topic in the UK forums?

 

I have provided many fixes in attempt to fix the issue, but have failed. The issue is/was not caused by myself as you state it was working sometime before. Nothing was changed in VCA to cause the problem, therefore it SHOULDNT be my responsibility to fix it!

 

The question remains... why does Euroscope or the VATSIM protocol allow the squawk code of an aircraft to be changed when the controller cannot see the aircraft? This was not the case a few years back... why has it changed?

 

I have tested that a controller in the UK is able to change the squawk code for an aircraft in Australia successfully, which should NOT be able to happen... That is a failure of the VATSIM protocol, NOT VCA.

 

I have released a work-around this evening that ensures that aircraft is visible when resetting the squawk code. Various Euroscope APIs failed to determine the visiblility of an aircraft successfully... I have had to write my OWN method to determine the visibility.

 

PLEASE DO NOT UNDERMINE ANYBODY WHO CONTRIBUTES TO THE COMMUNITY IN THEIR OWN FREE TIME. I am really quite offended by that...

It's not harsh, it's frank. Your plugin has negatively impacted my online experience for a long time, it does not help that it's done for free. The fact that you also seem aggrevated that someone would want to .wallop something that messes with their controller software over the servers does not soften the annoyance. You wouldn't be very appreciative if someone painted your house per your specifications for free but then drew a giant something-in-particular on one of your walls. You would not be much happier afterwards when this person told you that he did you that service for free and that he finds your attack on his artistery offensive. "Oh, calling the police? That's rich, I'll have you know we've opend a forum thread discussing the likes of you!"

 

Hasn't server wide FPs always been available through flightplan dialogues in various clients? Just like you can PM anyone outside your visrange? I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall as such.

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It's not harsh, it's frank. Your plugin has negatively impacted my online experience for a long time, it does not help that it's done for free. The fact that you also seem aggrevated that someone would want to .wallop something that messes with their controller software over the servers does not soften the annoyance. You wouldn't be very appreciative if someone painted your house per your specifications for free but then drew a giant something-in-particular on one of your walls. You would not be much happier afterwards when this person told you that he did you that service for free and that he finds your attack on his artistery offensive. "Oh, calling the police? That's rich, I'll have you know we've opend a forum thread discussing the likes of you!"

 

Hasn't server wide FPs always been available through flightplan dialogues in various clients? Just like you can PM anyone outside your visrange? I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall as such.

I'm quite happy I solely have the power to impact your online experience, but I'm so sorry to hear it's a negative one. With all due respect I have tried MANY times to resolve the issues, however due to the unreliable nature of the Euroscope API and the VATSIM protocol, it is impossible to fix...

 

I have vast experience in programming in the real-world, working for a well known aircraft manufacturer, so I think I know what I am talking about. Given what is available through the Euroscope API and VATSIM protocol is somewhat unreliable and too restrictive... If you would like to criticise and think you can do better, then go ahead... I have better things to worry about in the real world than the politics of VATSIM.

 

Unfortunately during the years I have been a member of VATSIM, I have seen it to become overrun by autocratic immature young children who get too heavily involved in the politics to give themselves a title that in turn makes it un-enjoyable for others. I have contributed many things to VATSIM, to what reward? To be mocked, chastised and BLAMED for mistakes that quite frankly are not my own, and yet I am trying my best to work around them. That DOES NOT motivate myself or others to contribute anything further.

 

Having discovered that the latest version of VCA released today does NOT fix the bugs, despite various attempts of working around the limitations of the Euroscope API and VATSIM protocol and for the various negative comments I have received, would you and others prefer I disable VCA entirely? Please bare in mind that VCA is a lot more than a squawk code allocator and initial altitude setter...

 

Kind Regards

 

Craig Phillips

Craig Phillips

 

Senior Student - UK South East - Mentor

Developer: Aircraft Situation Editor (ASE)

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Rather than everyone trying to point score over others, would it not be an idea to work together to help resolve the issue(s) quicker? If you're having issues as a result of the plugin, perhaps providing logs/video captures of it happening so that Craig can see it if he's not able to reproduce himself?

 

The VATSIM community is a community - maybe working together as one will help to make everyone's experience more enjoyable in the longer term...?

Trevor Hannant

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Just an idea which has been proposed before: make the plugin open source. Other people could help you out and maybe someone has a solution which fixes the problem. You say you do it in your free time, well maybe other skilled people could help you out when it is open source.

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Having discovered that the latest version of VCA released today does NOT fix the bugs, despite various attempts of working around the limitations of the Euroscope API and VATSIM protocol and for the various negative comments I have received, would you and others prefer I disable VCA entirely? Please bare in mind that VCA is a lot more than a squawk code allocator and initial altitude setter...
No need to shutdown the entire plugin, but how about to deactivate the faulty modules until a satisfactory solution has been found?

 

So let's start discussing these issues. Can you confirm the following problems exist?

VATSIM: the protocol allows commands on aircraft outside the visibility range of the controller.

ES API: Certain functions to not work as expected. Can you name the functions, describe the expected and actual output?

Did you notify the relevant persons about this issues? Especially with Gergely, I have very good experience in timely [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance to solve issues (like for the latest release r16).

Jonas Kuster Leader Operation - vACC Switzerland | www.vacc.ch

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Having discovered that the latest version of VCA released today does NOT fix the bugs, despite various attempts of working around the limitations of the Euroscope API and VATSIM protocol and for the various negative comments I have received, would you and others prefer I disable VCA entirely? Please bare in mind that VCA is a lot more than a squawk code allocator and initial altitude setter...
No need to shutdown the entire plugin, but how about to deactivate the faulty modules until a satisfactory solution has been found?

 

So let's start discussing these issues. Can you confirm the following problems exist?

VATSIM: the protocol allows commands on aircraft outside the visibility range of the controller.

ES API: Certain functions to not work as expected. Can you name the functions, describe the expected and actual output?

Did you notify the relevant persons about this issues? Especially with Gergely, I have very good experience in timely [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance to solve issues (like for the latest release r16).

So today any version prior to the current latest (B23) of VCA has been disabled... Could you please inform me, preferably with an ES log if you have any further issues with neighbouring controllers.

 

Many Thanks

 

Craig Phillips

(Developer of VCA)

Craig Phillips

 

Senior Student - UK South East - Mentor

Developer: Aircraft Situation Editor (ASE)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Having discovered that the latest version of VCA released today does NOT fix the bugs, despite various attempts of working around the limitations of the Euroscope API and VATSIM protocol and for the various negative comments I have received, would you and others prefer I disable VCA entirely? Please bare in mind that VCA is a lot more than a squawk code allocator and initial altitude setter...
No need to shutdown the entire plugin, but how about to deactivate the faulty modules until a satisfactory solution has been found?

 

So let's start discussing these issues. Can you confirm the following problems exist?

VATSIM: the protocol allows commands on aircraft outside the visibility range of the controller.

ES API: Certain functions to not work as expected. Can you name the functions, describe the expected and actual output?

Did you notify the relevant persons about this issues? Especially with Gergely, I have very good experience in timely [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance to solve issues (like for the latest release r16).

 

Now the latest version has been running for a week, have you experienced any squawk code or temporary altitude problems?

 

Kind Regards

 

Craig

Craig Phillips

 

Senior Student - UK South East - Mentor

Developer: Aircraft Situation Editor (ASE)

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The easiest way of doing so is providing a suitable replacement which is currently in development.

If that is the case, I don't see that it is open source... which goes against the grain a bit. One rule for one, another rule for another one?

When the plugin is released, it will be open source.

 

Thanks,

Edited by Guest

Calum Towers
Web Services Director
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Network Supervisor

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Hi Craig,

Now the latest version has been running for a week, have you experienced any squawk code or temporary altitude problems?
I have controlled as EURM_CTR last night and did not come across the usual problems. That looks quite promising!
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It's been good for a long time now, but now we're starting to see the same old VCS issues again with planes coming from the UK... DUPE squawks when [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning, temp alt of 6000ft, exactly what we've been seeing before...

Mats Edvin Aarø
General Manager - Member Engagement
Supervisor Team Lead: Team 4
[email protected]

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It's been good for a long time now, but now we're starting to see the same old VCS issues again with planes coming from the UK... DUPE squawks when [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning, temp alt of 6000ft, exactly what we've been seeing before...

 

The temp alt of 6000ft seems to be when the plane only have been in contact with no more than twr controller. Then only initial climb has been set. Or if initial controller logs off before new alt is set.

 

Ref. https://community.vatsim.uk/topic/27772-virtual-controller-[Mod - Happy Thoughts]istant-vca-new-euroscope-plugin/?do=findComment&comment=315897

 

DUPE squawks. Are you using vca for squawks of our range?

Anyways. If someone is not using vca squawks may dupe as a standard squawk allocation in es doesn't check for squawks in use.

 

 

Also report these bugs with es log file. Easier to error check with the log.

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The DUPE sqauwks, does not have anything with VCA to do. In case you want to get rid of them, I suggest you turn off "Simulated traffic". Then Euroscope can't see the squawks unless their are inside your range.

 

The only thing, that is interesting in this part, is that the TEMP ALT is changed to 6000ft - I haven't seen that for quite a while, and then the logfile, would be interesting to read.

Morten Jelle

VATSIM Network Senior Supervisor
VATSIM Membership Manager, Asia/Pacific Region

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