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Discussion: If you could change one thing about VATSIM...


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Making a clear rule in the CoC about the use of time acceleration on the network.

... and a clear distinction between "should" and "must/shall". Let's put THAT one to rest, finally...

Hear! Hear! And remove "Should" from CoC B3!

Quig, C3, P1, VATPAC, CZQM (inact), CZQX (ret).

4200+ hrs of "Chaos, Panic & Disorder in your virtual skies!"

 

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Thank you to everyone that has contributed to this thread thus far. There have been many fair points raised and we are already talking about them.

 

It's obvious that the number one issue is voice codec, followed by pilot standards / quality. Many other good suggestions have been raised as well.

 

It is our intention to let this discussion continue to run for another few days and then lock this post. Once we do that, we will compile the suggestions as well as some other questions and be having a member wide survey. When this survey is launched, please take the time to complete it as our plans for the future will be largely based on the results.

 

Thank you again for everything you have contributed so far.

 

Ok...3 months p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed since the post was first created, numerous members participated, many good suggestions were raised, the discussion is still undergoing...Has the BoG reached to any conclusions? Do we expect the survey anytime soon or it will take 1-2 years followed by another couple of years for the ideas to be implemented because of bureaucracy?

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Nick, while I understand where you are coming from, a little less provocative tone might help. I am sure everyone, including the Board members, would love to see certain projects being worked on and rolled out faster.

 

I think it was a remarkable step by the Board to go out and ask the entire active VATSIM membership, over 75,000 people, what it is that individual members think would be the change for the better enjoyment of VATSIM, keeping in mind that they may have gotten several dozen different opinions, which all may have been backed by good reasoning.

 

If you like and enjoy VATSIM, I suggest you trust that this step of reaching out will be followed up with some good work by the Board. And they will inform the membership when they have something to report.

 

Until such time, I suggest while borrowing some words from a former US President, "ask not what VATSIM can do for you, ask what you can do for VATSIM." Fly, get pilot ratings, start an ATC career, become a mentor or staff member of some kind. We all can give and give back. That is what makes VATSIM live.

 

 

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''If you could have one thing in your life what would it be...''

God this questions sound rather familiar in both real life and movies

 

But in all seriousness if I had the opportunity to change one thing about and on VATSIM it would probably be... attitude or mentality.

 

Please do not get me wrong I am a ''long standing member'' of VATSIM as I registered(according to books) on 4th January 2009 which means that at the start of next year I will hit a ''milestone'' for my VATSIM Career. When I joined I was only 13 years old and I feel like when I started everything was new,nice and entertaining. The controllers had less of an attitude and opinion made about pilots but they were much tougher than they are now and could challenge even the most experience pilots.

 

When I am flying,controlling or even watching Twitch Clips from some streamers I feel rather embarr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed if I'm honest. I felt it when I was flying that the new generation of controllers and those that started controlling within last 3/4 years have attitude problems and their ego's go beyond ''the galaxy''. But lately the more I look into it and the more I look through Youtube ''#VATSIMthings'' Compilation the more I see that the problem have increased...

 

Although I have been lately applied to the position of VATEUD ATC Department Lead I am sorry to say but I feel like the ATC Standards have dropped significantly over the last few years rather than grow to a all high level. Considering some of the controllers I have flown under control lately I am confident some of them would have NOT even be choose for ATC Training back in the day when I have joined.

 

When I joined I used to only fly within the Polish FIR and only the flight between Krakow to Gdansk because I was a complete newbie at the time and I had barely any knowledge what so ever. I have flown few times under Polish Air Traffic Service at the time and it was understandable that their controllers at the time were tough but they wouldn't have made you uncomfortable. If they have thought that you do not uphold enough knowledge to continue your flight on the network they would simply advice you to ''disconnect and build up on your knowledge''. On the other hand I feel like pilots at that time were much more understandable and had bigger set of respect towards controllers because in their eyes they have ''achieved something''

 

In my eyes now days both ATC Standards and Pilot standards have dropped. People are less respectful towards one another and have attitude towards those that try and advice them or even support them in any way.

 

I am uncertain how much impact being a Streamer/Youtuber have now days and what would people do for those extra ''views'' but I feel its inappropriate to address fellow aviator as ''Kid'' and tell him ''I have no time for your shenanigans''(This is probably one of the ''lighter'' things I have heard lately)

 

I think we should all take a minute to consider the fact that they will judge us, how they see us. In all honesty if I wasn't a VATSIM member now and only would be considering joining. I would probably had a solid thing about doing so after seeing some of those Twitch Clips being easily accessible to the public on Youtube...

 

Last but not least... I think by the end of the day it all comes up to attitude and right set of mentality. In my case to keep ''low-headed'' I tend to not think of myself as a EUD4 when I am talking to someone but as a fellow pilot. So that my discussion with that individual is on the same level and that he sees I have full respect towards him and I value him and his opinion.

 

If anyone is willing to challenge my point of view or questions some things feel free to drop me a message. I am always happy to discuss it.

VATEUD ATC Department Lead | Senior Divisional Instructor [i3]

For any queries contact me on [email protected]

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Michael, i didn't want to sound provocative, i guess that's the disadvantage of expressing yourself via writting...you can't always properly deliver the "tone" of your thoughts...

 

Don't get me wrong, i believe it's a general feeling that the current Board has the will to change things and will deliver. Combined with the years of stagnation in the developement/new features field, has created a feeling of anxiety to vatsim's members (including me) who are keen to see things change and are thirsty for frequent status updates. And sometimes a little push, a little pressure in the right direction from the members, can send a clear message and make the wheel spin

 

I fully agree that the community has to contribute in any way possible since vatsim is the community and visa versa. Personally i've corresponded via email to Zach's appeal a while back for any kind of help from the community, i'm still waiting for a reply or any kind of acknowledgement, but honestly i don't blame him, i'm sure he's on a full schedule for the last couple of months.

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Michael, i didn't want to sound provocative, i guess that's the disadvantage of expressing yourself via writting...you can't always properly deliver the "tone" of your thoughts...

 

Don't get me wrong, i believe it's a general feeling that the current Board has the will to change things and will deliver. Combined with the years of stagnation in the developement/new features field, has created a feeling of anxiety to vatsim's members (including me) who are keen to see things change and are thirsty for frequent status updates. And sometimes a little push, a little pressure in the right direction from the members, can send a clear message and make the wheel spin

 

I fully agree that the community has to contribute in any way possible since vatsim is the community and visa versa. Personally i've corresponded via email to Zach's appeal a while back for any kind of help from the community, i'm still waiting for a reply or any kind of acknowledgement, but honestly i don't blame him, i'm sure he's on a full schedule for the last couple of months.

 

Oh God, I am absolutely sorry Nick. My post was NOT intended at you or anyone else involved in this topic.

 

The post itself was just general expression of opinion as many have probably done before me. In my case unfortunately I haven't back checked what happen in last few post and just added my few bits. Once again I am absolutely sorry if you have taken it directly.

As I said I intended not to direct it at anyone within this thread I just shared my thoughts that attitude and mentality has been ongoing issue lately on and off the network.

VATEUD ATC Department Lead | Senior Divisional Instructor [i3]

For any queries contact me on [email protected]

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And I think that Nick's reply was for Michael, not you Michal

 

Blame ''British Educational System''!

They had no idea how to pronounce my name in Secondary School and College so I got used to responding to Michael,Michal or Mick

VATEUD ATC Department Lead | Senior Divisional Instructor [i3]

For any queries contact me on [email protected]

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I’m going to be naughty and add another one. It is ex staff being given reserved staff callsigns (usually by divisions). Why is this a thing? It is cronyism at its worst. VATSIM should not be giving ex staff “perks” like a reserved callsign because it is not their purpose (ie identify an online staff member). It is confusing and also just “wrong”.

 

Please can this be looked into and banned? It makes my skin crawl. Why would anyone want one?!?

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In some cultures, goats are sacrificed as a gesture to the Gods. I don't know what it has to do with the price of fish. Frame it however you like, but it is misuse of staff callsigns. You and I have both been staff for a very long time, do we need some form of recognition? I certainly don't. I don't do it for that and if anybody does, they're doing it for the wrong reason!

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In some cultures, goats are sacrificed as a gesture to the Gods. I don't know what it has to do with the price of fish. Frame it however you like, but it is misuse of staff callsigns. You and I have both been staff for a very long time, do we need some form of recognition? I certainly don't. I don't do it for that and if anybody does, they're doing it for the wrong reason!
Yes, I agree, but I also don't want to apply this view to everybody and everywhere in VATSIM, as we are a multi-cultural community. I think that we have more important issues that need to be resolved.
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Okay, well why doesn’t everyone who has done a good deed get to keep their SUP/ADM rating, access to all staff forums, email addresses. Heck, let’s let people keep their titles too.

 

There is a good reason why not, and that should apply equally across the board. It’s a matter of principle. Especially when the same people making the argument you are, and those using these “courtesy call signs” are the first to slap down eager members wanting to join staff teams for “wanting to do it for the wrong reason”.

 

My view is that VATSIM is a level playing field where people volunteer because volunteering is the right thing to do, not for reasons of status. My view is that there is fairness where members are equal and tools used for people to better the network are not misused for personal reasons, which are however you from it, related to ego and an attempt to carry status.

 

That’s a fairly fundamental point. Try to think deeper about what this issue says about VATSIM.

 

In addition, it breaches the division policy of one division I know it happens in...

 

“Staff members, when operating in an official capacity, may use their staff callsign when logged into the network”. You can’t use a callsign if you aren’t staff!! What official capacity can an ex staff member hold?

 

Misuse of staff privileges is not okay.

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While I have an understanding for what you are saying, Callum, I agree with Ross that there are more important matters to be addressed. The accomplishments of certain members had a remarkably positive influence on the development of parts of our network and it would be nice if they were not forgotten. If it is nothing beyond a call sign or "insert title here Emeritus" title to say thank you, it should not hurt anyone.

 

Personally I think that VATSIM would progress much faster and easier if all members who serve in staff roles would perform all duties described in their respective job descriptions, and, more importantly, be held accountable to not only perform the duties, but perform them timely and in a complete and professional manner.

 

 

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Each to their own. If you want to feather your own nests then thats up to you. I think its sad that a VATSIM staff title and a callsign is seen by some as an important aspect of their life.

 

I've volunteered here and continue to do so. I seek no reward. Perhaps I shouldn't hold people to my own standards of volunteering purely for all members benefit, rather than my own . Even if offered some courtesy rating/callsign, I'd decline it. I take enjoyment from seeing the benefits from my actions volunteering on the network, (introducing formal pilot training on a large scale to VATUK, aiding in the formalisation of standardisation of supervisor activities for consistent member experiences, training supervisors and many others). A fake title and a fake callsign to m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]age my ego is so ridiculous it is a joke in itself.

 

Then again, I have a real title in a real company. Perhaps being a VATSIM "manager" is as senior as it gets for some. Maybe those who use these courtesy callsigns and titles don't realise how stupid they look?

 

Perhaps this is another thing I'd change about VATSIM. The ridiculous titles people have. I've had some myself, looking back on it. Lets stop blowing people's egos out of proportion and giving them cause to believe they are employed the FAA/CAA.

 

Staff have such a big part to play in improving the network, but they really are its biggest problem!

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But this is where you may want to open your mind a little bit. In other cultures holding a honorary title is not seen as "m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]aging ones ego", but rather as a sign of respect and recognition. We are all different and I find VATSIM so interesting, because we are all here and we have the chance to learn about the culture of others. We should embrace this. If you don't want to use a "fake rating" or a "fake title", then that's your own choice and I won't judge you for that, at all.

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Okay, well why doesn’t everyone who has done a good deed get to keep their SUP/ADM rating, access to all staff forums, email addresses. Heck, let’s let people keep their titles too.

 

There is a good reason why not, and that should apply equally across the board. It’s a matter of principle. Especially when the same people making the argument you are, and those using these “courtesy call signs” are the first to slap down eager members wanting to join staff teams for “wanting to do it for the wrong reason”.

 

My view is that VATSIM is a level playing field where people volunteer because volunteering is the right thing to do, not for reasons of status. My view is that there is fairness where members are equal and tools used for people to better the network are not misused for personal reasons, which are however you from it, related to ego and an attempt to carry status.

 

That’s a fairly fundamental point. Try to think deeper about what this issue says about VATSIM.

 

In addition, it breaches the division policy of one division I know it happens in...

 

“Staff members, when operating in an official capacity, may use their staff callsign when logged into the network”. You can’t use a callsign if you aren’t staff!! What official capacity can an ex staff member hold?

 

Misuse of staff privileges is not okay.

 

Not exactly sure what you are speaking to here. Can you email me specifics if you are not comfortable talking about it here?

 

RJ

Richard Jenkins

richard(a)vatsim.net

"It's all fun and games until the cops show up."

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The first thing I would do that hasn't already been mentioned is change the forums back to the way they were a couple of months ago. I enjoy reading the forums but that really isn't possible anymore because now it reads like nothing more than advertisements for events. With events going on all over the globe , it's 24 hours a day listings and it makes it very difficult to actually find and read what else may be there. I figure if I wanted to know what was happening in Timbucktoo next Thursday I could go tot the events forum and see it there.

 

Now, our main forum, where we pick up all of our information, engage in general discussion, get or give help to those who need it, is almost impossible to read, let along find anything.

__________

Ira Robinson

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The voice codec is obviously a big factor. I really do not have the expertise to offer anything on how to fix or resolve this but I am happy that the team has made some progress.

 

Pilot Training seems to be a big issue with some people. I honestly ride the fence on this somewhat but what I would like to see and something that I am working on is perhaps a more involved pilot community. I am not talking about VA's but more on a Division or perhaps regional level. I think the interaction between pilots and controllers could be beneficial as opposed to the interaction when both are online and issues come up.

 

The last thing that I would like to see and this will have to come from the individual and not VATSIM is patience. We sometimes become very inpatient with people when they do not live up to our standard but I think we need to remember that each of us was a beginner at some point in time.

Mark Hubbert

Division Director VATUSA

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@Callum, your comments about "staff titles" are spot on.

 

This oddball ego m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]aging culture of endless staff positions with fancy titles makes every title downgraded and a bit silly. Its a flight sim thing which tries to mirror real world avaition which is a high brow, high status world.

 

Over the last 10 years stagnation gets a mention on Vatsim time and time again, but the merry go round of endless status promotions with suitable titles and back slapping on achievements has always been ferocious.

 

Honest guys, if you look at the situation from outside the Vatsim manager /directorship bubble which many of you can't do who read this forum because you have one those titles.

 

It really does look silly.

 

Having said that Virtual airlines " Hub Managers" vacancies are my favourites, where you have to fill out employment applications for the posts.

 

Callum says the staff are the biggest problem in improving the network, my own hunch is improvements get sidelined due to "contests" in the various Vatsim empires and the big picture gets overlooked.

.

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