Jump to content

Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq?


Recommended Posts

1. Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq all the way til handing me off to LA CTR? I was over Northern Arizona and I asked DEN CTR how much longer he was going to keep me on his freq and he replied, 44nm until you are no longer in my airspace. What map was he looking at that shows DEN CTR airspace connecting to LA CTR airspace?

 

2. Why is it that so many controllers are so reluctant in [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning a runway until you are about 5 minutes from your arrival airport? Do they understand that in order to setup an approach, we who are in the air flying [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned 180 to 200 kts above 5,000 ft have to program a flight computer for the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned approach while simultaneously flying the airplane? By the time that happens, going missed is the only option because they tend to think at times that we can begin the runway's [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned approach descent schedule the very second they [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it. On top of that, so many controllers get frustrated with us when we have to go missed.

 

Why can't CTR give us what runway to expect when we ask?

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq all the way til handing me off to LA CTR? I was over Northern Arizona and I asked DEN CTR how much longer he was going to keep me on his freq and he replied, 44nm until you are no longer in my airspace. What map was he looking at that shows DEN CTR airspace connecting to LA CTR airspace?

 

2. Why is it that so many controllers are so reluctant in [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning a runway until you are about 5 minutes from your arrival airport? Do they understand that in order to setup an approach, we who are in the air flying [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned 180 to 200 kts above 5,000 ft have to program a flight computer for the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned approach while simultaneously flying the airplane? By the time that happens, going missed is the only option because they tend to think at times that we can begin the runway's [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned approach descent schedule the very second they [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it. On top of that, so many controllers get frustrated with us when we have to go missed.

 

Why can't CTR give us what runway to expect when we ask?

 

1. ATC may have coordinated a non-standard transfer point between DEN and LA centers. Plenty of stuff goes on behind the scenes. We care more about you watching sector boundaries when you're entering from uncontrolled airspace. Once you're talking to a controller, let them do their thing.

 

2. If Approach is on, I can't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign you a runway as a Center controller. I can point you to the ATIS, but I'll have you over to Approach as you descend through about FL180, and the first thing the Approach controller should be doing is [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning you a runway. If I'm working the Approach control top-down, I can usually give you a runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment around the same time the approach controller would. Runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments are based on not only the weather, but the flow of traffic. If I have multiple arrivals, I'm going to balance them across my two parallel runways so that no one aircraft gets a long final at the expense of another. Your best case option is to listen to (or read via text ATIS) the airport ATIS as soon as you're able to see it in your controller list. Usually this happens 200-300nm away. If multiple arrival runways are advertised, you can make an educated guess as to which one you're going to get based upon the general direction from which you're arriving. If you don't get a runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment prior to being issued an altitude below 10,000, I'd be querying the controller.

Dhruv Kalra

VATUSA ZMP ATM | Instructor | VATSIM Network Supervisor

878508.png878508.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Do they understand that in order to setup an approach, we who are in the air flying [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned 180 to 200 kts above 5,000 ft have to program a flight computer for the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned approach while simultaneously flying the airplane? By the time that happens, going missed is the only option because they tend to think at times that we can begin the runway's [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned approach descent schedule the very second they [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it. On top of that, so many controllers get frustrated with us when we have to go missed.

 

Competent controllers know exactly what you are talking about. They will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign a runways as soon as possible, and if they have to change that [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment at some point, they will recognize your location with reference to the point on the STAR were the transitions for the respective runways split. If you are within a certain distance to that point, a good controller will at least offer vectors if not just [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning them with the runway change, so that you don't have to worry about rushing that entry into the computer. We totally recognize that you have stuff to do in the cockpit. A lot of real world terminal facilities actually have this written into the SOP so that it isn't left up to controller judgement.

 

Second, when flying a airliner single pilot at 250 knots in the terminal environment, autopilot is the single greatest tool currently known to man. Keep in mind that during the approach phase of flight, real world crews are incredibly busy configuring the airplane and programming the approaches etc.. and they have TWO pilots! We have to deal with doing everything ourselves.

 

With that being said, you as a pilot on the network should take initiative on being knowledgeable and proficient with your airplane, your FMC system, and the ideal order of things to accomplish on descent. Don't be reactive, be proactive: Set everything up you can for the possible approaches. If it's two possible runways would each ILS frequency into the active and standby radio panels early, so that when you finally get [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned your runway, all you can to do is flip the switch, and then select it in the FMC. Once you get good at these priorities, you can simply enjoy the ride because 90% of the work has been done before you even started your descent.

Link to post
Share on other sites
What map was he looking at that shows DEN CTR airspace connecting to LA CTR airspace?
This one, amongst many: https://i.imgur.com/sCIoORJ.png

Also, if you don't want enroute ATC, disconnect. Simple as. Being connected to VATSIM indicates you are there to recieve ATC services, if you'd rather be on 122.80 and watch Netflix, get offline and come back online at ToD.

 

Why can't CTR give us what runway to expect when we ask?
Because CTR doesn't always know, and/or it's a local procedure that they do not [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign runways for that airport at all. My question is rather why can't pilots keep two approach plates open at the same time, brief the most likely one and be ready to change if needed? And remember that if they're given another one than expected, they can still request the one they'd prefer, instead of ranting about it later? (It's a rhetorical question, by the way. Pilots can do that!)

 

And should the pilot then feel unfairly treated, he or she ought to realize that the most effective way to get to grips with the issue is to go through the feedback-system offered by practically all vARTCCs and vACCs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The map I look at is this one: https://map.vatsim.net/

 

I used to fly real airplanes until I lost my medical. So I am aware as to how things should work, and I'm pretty proficient in my aircraft that I simulate flying on VATSIM.

 

The 2 worst sectors on VATSIM in my experience are LA and ATL. When I'm descending thru 18k at both LA ctr and ATL ctr, the chances of them handing me over to app is 1 in 10.

 

The last time I flew into the LA area, I wasn't handed over to SOCAL app until 10,000 ft. even though I had been asking for a handoff, but no, still being told to remain on his freq. Why didn't I get transferred at 17k? Handed me over and SOCAL app, and app kept telling me to be quiet while he dealt with 2 other flights. He gave me an ILS and 30 seconds later he told me that I should have been using an RNAV even though he [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned an ILS originally 30 seconds prior, the 2 different approaches are a "bit" different. Compound that with 8,000 ft and 210 on the speed while being 5 minutes from the field. And he gets frustrated when I say that I have to go missed as if it is my fault? The VATSIM map showed 3 planes operating in all of SOCAL airspace under 18k and the other 5 planes were in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A above 18k. I had no traffic within a 15-20nm radius of my present position. My arriving airport had no traffic of any kind.

 

In ATL I listen to ATIS and set up my fmc accordingly. I call app at 8,000 to confirm ATIS and I ask for the runway(s) that is on ATIS for arrivals and I got the following response, "Well, let's see until you get a little closer". What? I looked at the VATSIM map on my tablet (map is always on my tablet's browser) and there were 5 planes in all of ATL ctr's airspace. I was about 20nm out, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned 6,000 ft and 220 on the speed being told to turn to 360 on the heading to intercept the ils. I said that you are bringing me in too high and too fast, but app was silent. I repeated my tx, and no response. So I am intercepting the loc but 2,000 above the g/s and 4 nm out at 200 on the speed as instructed, so I call for a missed. And then app texts me in saying that I need to be more vigilant. Really? This has happened more than once in ATL.

 

I have filed instances on the specifics with vARTCC's websites and I have never received acknowledgement even though I click the box that says "Would you like a reply" but I have never received replies. Checked my spam filter and never received reply or feedback.

 

P.S. NY, Detroit, Indy, Sea Tac, SFO, and DFW sectors are staffed with great and competent controllers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq all the way til handing me off to LA CTR? I was over Northern Arizona and I asked DEN CTR how much longer he was going to keep me on his freq and he replied, 44nm until you are no longer in my airspace. What map was he looking at that shows DEN CTR airspace connecting to LA CTR airspace?

 

ZDV covers into Northern Arizona and shares a border with ZLA. It's not a very large border, but flows from DEN to Socal will generally go straight from ZDV to ZLA, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that non-standard routings for weather or other factors aren't in place.

 

The 2 worst sectors on VATSIM in my experience are LA and ATL. When I'm descending thru 18k at both LA ctr and ATL ctr, the chances of them handing me over to app is 1 in 10.

 

The last time I flew into the LA area, I wasn't handed over to SOCAL app until 10,000 ft. even though I had been asking for a handoff, but no, still being told to remain on his freq. Why didn't I get transferred at 17k?

 

Depending on where you were flying into, it's entirely possible you didn't hit the boundary between SCT and ZLA until you were more or less p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing through 10,000'. This is the case particularly in the outlying fields of Socal such as Burbank, Ontario, and SAN. Arrivals to ONT and BUR in particular enter SCT at a lower altitude due to their need to stay below arrivals into LAX.

 

Handed me over and SOCAL app, and app kept telling me to be quiet while he dealt with 2 other flights. He gave me an ILS and 30 seconds later he told me that I should have been using an RNAV even though he [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned an ILS originally 30 seconds prior, the 2 different approaches are a "bit" different. Compound that with 8,000 ft and 210 on the speed while being 5 minutes from the field. And he gets frustrated when I say that I have to go missed as if it is my fault? The VATSIM map showed 3 planes operating in all of SOCAL airspace under 18k and the other 5 planes were in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A above 18k. I had no traffic within a 15-20nm radius of my present position. My arriving airport had no traffic of any kind.

 

I have filed instances on the specifics with vARTCC's websites and I have never received acknowledgement even though I click the box that says "Would you like a reply" but I have never received replies. Checked my spam filter and never received reply or feedback.

 

This does sound off and I'd love to follow up on it. You said you filed feedback for it, but I don't see anything in our system with your name on it within the last year or so. Can you provide the date that you filed the feedback on? I always make it a point to respond to feedback when requested, positive or negative, so if I did miss yours then I apologize.

Daniel Everman

ZMP DATM

Link to post
Share on other sites
The last time I flew into the LA area, I wasn't handed over to SOCAL app until 10,000 ft. even though I had been asking for a handoff, but no, still being told to remain on his freq. Why didn't I get transferred at 17k? Handed me over and SOCAL app, and app kept telling me to be quiet while he dealt with 2 other flights. He gave me an ILS and 30 seconds later he told me that I should have been using an RNAV even though he [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned an ILS originally 30 seconds prior, the 2 different approaches are a "bit" different. Compound that with 8,000 ft and 210 on the speed while being 5 minutes from the field. And he gets frustrated when I say that I have to go missed as if it is my fault? The VATSIM map showed 3 planes operating in all of SOCAL airspace under 18k and the other 5 planes were in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A above 18k. I had no traffic within a 15-20nm radius of my present position. My arriving airport had no traffic of any kind.

 

 

Please stop trying to do the controller's job. There are certain procedures that happen in he back ground that you'll never know about for those handoffs. You say that you used to fly in the real world, so you're very proficient with your aircraft and navigation systems. How are any of these things issues for you? I regularly fly in all of those places you mention, and haven't had a similar experience.

 

Your job is to fly your airplane, if you have to go around, go around. If the controller get's pissed that's their problem. But I'm sure I would also get pissed if a pilot kept asking for a handoff to approach every 5 seconds because they don't know what the agreements are and don't know what the sectorization of the airspace is exactly. Let the controller work. If they forget to do something for you, you can ask but chances are they have a reason for what they're doing.

 

Controllers have a bunch of priorities that are constantly changing as their traffic picture changes. Turning to intercept a localizer takes a higher priority than answering an arrival entering the terminal environment for the first time. One of the most valuable skills as a controller, believe it or not, is knowing when to ignore people checking in.

 

My final advice for you is: The sooner to stop trying to blame the controllers for you not being able to have your airplane configured properly for the approach, the sooner you'll be able to get better. The reason I'm saying this is because even with all the other problems that I've experienced from controllers on the network, I've never experienced anything nearly as bad as what you describe. Which leads me to believe it might be some sort of stretched truth.

 

Good day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a quick note: I'm not going to respond to the Shane individual because it seems that he lacks the ability as to properly respond in a polite manner, and especially to a disabled person (me) who can no longer sit in a real cockpit because of the disability. And it seems he has no clue as to how ATC functions. Airline pilots constantly correct controllers on an amicable basis, and if the controller gets upset ATPs file more reports with the FAA about controllers mistakes than you want to know about. Some mistakes that mirror what I reported here. I know real world ATPs, one of which is in my immediate family, but what do I know. As for my flying, I guess I need "to get better", LOL.

 

As for Daniel Everman, I will kindly respond because he is a polite person. So as to your question's answer: I do not have dates, but in the last 7-8 months or so I have reported problems at the following websites without receiving feedback:

 

https://www.nyartcc.org/feedback

https://laartcc.org/feedback

https://www.ztlartcc.org/feedback/create

 

1. Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq all the way til handing me off to LA CTR? I was over Northern Arizona and I asked DEN CTR how much longer he was going to keep me on his freq and he replied, 44nm until you are no longer in my airspace. What map was he looking at that shows DEN CTR airspace connecting to LA CTR airspace?

 

ZDV covers into Northern Arizona and shares a border with ZLA. It's not a very large border, but flows from DEN to Socal will generally go straight from ZDV to ZLA, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that non-standard routings for weather or other factors aren't in place.

 

The 2 worst sectors on VATSIM in my experience are LA and ATL. When I'm descending thru 18k at both LA ctr and ATL ctr, the chances of them handing me over to app is 1 in 10.

 

The last time I flew into the LA area, I wasn't handed over to SOCAL app until 10,000 ft. even though I had been asking for a handoff, but no, still being told to remain on his freq. Why didn't I get transferred at 17k?

 

Depending on where you were flying into, it's entirely possible you didn't hit the boundary between SCT and ZLA until you were more or less p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing through 10,000'. This is the case particularly in the outlying fields of Socal such as Burbank, Ontario, and SAN. Arrivals to ONT and BUR in particular enter SCT at a lower altitude due to their need to stay below arrivals into LAX.

 

Handed me over and SOCAL app, and app kept telling me to be quiet while he dealt with 2 other flights. He gave me an ILS and 30 seconds later he told me that I should have been using an RNAV even though he [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned an ILS originally 30 seconds prior, the 2 different approaches are a "bit" different. Compound that with 8,000 ft and 210 on the speed while being 5 minutes from the field. And he gets frustrated when I say that I have to go missed as if it is my fault? The VATSIM map showed 3 planes operating in all of SOCAL airspace under 18k and the other 5 planes were in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A above 18k. I had no traffic within a 15-20nm radius of my present position. My arriving airport had no traffic of any kind.

 

I have filed instances on the specifics with vARTCC's websites and I have never received acknowledgement even though I click the box that says "Would you like a reply" but I have never received replies. Checked my spam filter and never received reply or feedback.

 

This does sound off and I'd love to follow up on it. You said you filed feedback for it, but I don't see anything in our system with your name on it within the last year or so. Can you provide the date that you filed the feedback on? I always make it a point to respond to feedback when requested, positive or negative, so if I did miss yours then I apologize.

Link to post
Share on other sites
As a quick note: I'm not going to respond to the Shane individual [snip]... and it seems he has no clue as to how ATC functions.

 

He's a real world controller, so I'm going to safely say that that is a bad [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umption...

Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager

VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC 

Cross the Pond Planning Team

Link to post
Share on other sites
As a quick note: I'm not going to respond to the Shane individual [snip]... and it seems he has no clue as to how ATC functions.

 

He's a real world controller, so I'm going to safely say that that is a bad [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umption...

 

First of all he is not polite in what he said to me. Zero tact. Very rude to say what he said to anyone.

 

If VATSIM is to be as real as it gets, then he should know how many reports the FAA receives from ATPs in reporting controller mistakes from certain airports vs. other airports with same traffic flows. I would like to only give 1 example but it involves the real world so I will not say what happened. So let's just say, thank God for TCAS.

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brandon,

 

I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you that Shane has plenty of a “clue”. That being said, I’ll be happy to engage your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ertion that real-world ATPs “correct” controllers all the time, since I fall under both categories. The corrective exchanges that take place on real frequencies are often in the interest of clearing up any misunderstandings over the intent of clearances and instructions, and are done so in the interest of safety, which is our first priority on both sides of the mic.

 

Most pilots I know, myself included, don’t make it a habit to armchair QB the point at which a frequency change is given. About the only time that’s warranted, in my experience, is if you’re over or inside the Final Approach Fix or a 5 mile final without having been told to contact tower. I can cite you any number of examples of situations where you might be kept on controller A’s frequency well into controller B’s airspace.

 

Regarding the runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment portion of your frustrations, I believe I already addressed it above. If you don’t have a runway to expect prior to entering what is generally accepted as sterile cockpit phase of the flight (below 10000 MSL), I would absolutely agree that you should convey a need for that information with some urgency. And as always, if a basic standard of service isn’t being provided, continue to leave feedback with the facilities in question. I can’t speak for NY or ATL, but I know Daniel Everman personally, and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you if he says that LA has not received feedback from you within the timeframe you specified, he’s likely right.

 

I, for one, appreciate that you chose to voice these concerns in the forum, because this allows us to have a dialogue about these common issues that hopefully will lead to a better education and understanding by both pilots and controllers alike regarding best practices when being a good citizen of the ATC system.

Dhruv Kalra

VATUSA ZMP ATM | Instructor | VATSIM Network Supervisor

878508.png878508.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Brandon,

 

I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you that Shane has plenty of a “clue”. That being said, I’ll be happy to engage your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ertion that real-world ATPs “correct” controllers all the time, since I fall under both categories. The corrective exchanges that take place on real frequencies are often in the interest of clearing up any misunderstandings over the intent of clearances and instructions, and are done so in the interest of safety, which is our first priority on both sides of the mic.

 

Dhruv,

 

Thank you for your polite response. Since you said that you would be happy to engage my [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ertion that real world correct control all the time I will give you an example that didn't happen in the real world. If the captain had not responded contrary to the air traffic controllers demand I would not be sitting here along with 174 other souls. This incident happened twice at the same Airport within 4 weeks. The approach controller and then the tower cleared the airplane for an ILS approach and then landing. The pilots had a warning on TCAS but the controllers told the pilots to disregard their concern as it is a false echo. The captain tried correcting the air traffic controllers to go missed to play it safe but the controllers would not back down as they were adamant as to what they were seeing. At 1500 feet AGL the airplane came out of the cloud layer. At that time the TCAS went nuts (PULL UP, PULL UP, MONITOR VERTICAL SPEED, CLIMB CLIMB...). What happened was a helicopter performing traffic reports in the arrival corridor. After the airplane flew over the helicopter, (missed by 300 feet) because of the captain's reflexes, the air traffic controller said in a low key voice, "Oh by the way there is a helicopter near you". No kidding... Now if the captain had not taken control and done what he did there would have been a mid-air collision. The captain reported the controllers to the FAA as he should have. The FAA wrote up a very lengthy report that was almost 70 pages long. Basically what the report said was that both parties both in the tower and in the cockpit performed according do standard operating procedures. Remember this happened twice in 4 weeks. The first officer could read the letters on the side of the helicopter.

 

My question is why in the world would the FAA continue to allow a helicopter to be operating in the arrival corridor of an airport, let alone under IFR low visibility and low ceiling conditions? That is pure lunacy in my opinion. So on both accounts the controllers got off free. Warning a flight crew about a helicopter on their Glide path after they fly over the helicopter. Explain that one to me. Now I don't mean to you, Dhruv, but I use it as a figure of speech.

 

I could give you one example after another of occasions where an air traffic controller had to be corrected by the flight crew. I know pilots who will not accept a schedule that takes them to a specific Airport because of the amount of times the controllers have vectored the pilots on heading and altitude that would lead them into the side of a mountain. The air traffic controllers get mad at the pilots when they do this until the pilots tell them, "Hey guys you just about ran us into the side of a mountain had we not taking things into our own hands." And every darn time it happened there is a long pause followed by a response from the controllers, oops sorry about that. OOPS? At the same Airport pilots have to frequently go missed because there are military jets on the runway parked right at the numbers and the controllers don't know why the airliner has to go missed. I don't blame ATPs for not wanting to go into that airport.

 

Most pilots I know, myself included, don’t make it a habit to armchair QB the point at which a frequency change is given. About the only time that’s warranted, in my experience, is if you’re over or inside the Final Approach Fix or a 5 mile final without having been told to contact tower. I can cite you any number of examples of situations where you might be kept on controller A’s frequency well into controller B’s airspace.

 

As far as frequency changes in the real world go I have had to go around 4 times into the same Airport last year because Chicago Center frequently does not hand you over to you're arriving Tower in time. As a result you are late in arriving and when the visibility is low with snow and icing while your aircraft is now using reserve fuel then you might understand why I am a stickler for frequency changes. A pilot that was flying jumpseat told me that this happens all the time when it comes to that particular flight.

 

As for VATSIM, I had flown past the final waypoint (CASIE) on the published STAR and the controller was telling me to be quiet after I had only contacted him once. Well there are mountains near ONT. So what was I supposed to do? So what I can say is how in the world am I stretching the truth?

 

Regarding the runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment portion of your frustrations, I believe I already addressed it above. If you don’t have a runway to expect prior to entering what is generally accepted as sterile cockpit phase of the flight (below 10000 MSL), I would absolutely agree that you should convey a need for that information with some urgency. And as always, if a basic standard of service isn’t being provided, continue to leave feedback with the facilities in question. I can’t speak for NY or ATL, but I know Daniel Everman personally, and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you if he says that LA has not received feedback from you within the timeframe you specified, he’s likely right.

 

I, for one, appreciate that you chose to voice these concerns in the forum, because this allows us to have a dialogue about these common issues that hopefully will lead to a better education and understanding by both pilots and controllers alike regarding best practices when being a good citizen of the ATC system.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The FAA wrote up a very lengthy report that was almost 70 pages long.

 

I’d be very interested to see a copy of that, because if it were truly that close to disaster, I can’t believe that it wouldn’t have been more common knowledge.

Dhruv Kalra

VATUSA ZMP ATM | Instructor | VATSIM Network Supervisor

878508.png878508.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't an apology.

 

Do you know what CRM means for someone with a physical disability? After you do than maybe you might consider that using a mouse, keyboard, and headset in VATSIM's environment is a bit difficult for those of us that have disabilities.

 

And by the way, the incident with the airliner and helicopter did happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The FAA wrote up a very lengthy report that was almost 70 pages long.

 

I’d be very interested to see a copy of that, because if it were truly that close to disaster, I can’t believe that it wouldn’t have been more common knowledge.

 

I see that my voice to text screwed up some info. It was a UniteExpress Emb-175 final into ORD in February 2016 if memory serves me correctly. The way in which the FAA handled it (clearing everyone of any wrongdoing) might be why it is not common knowledge if I had to guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interested if you knew the company that had the issue in ORD. I was flying E170s out of ORD in this time frame. We never saw a published event on our end.

 

Secondly here's a picture of the ZDV airspace - and yes - it does mesh up with ZLA.

http://prntscr.com/kmxpti

 

And not to dog what you were saying earlier - but I can recall a few times flying into ORD, real world, where they would change your runway at the last minute and you're expected to be able to fly it. The FMS doesn't take too long to program and if you can't take it you're able to use the one truly magic word in aviation, "Unable."

 

As a side note, I might reword the way you approach things in here - it sounded hostile straight out of the gate...

vZDV Training Administrator

VATSIM Supervisor

CFI / CFII / CASMELIA

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for Daniel Everman, I will kindly respond because he is a polite person. So as to your question's answer: I do not have dates, but in the last 7-8 months or so I have reported problems at the following websites without receiving feedback:

 

https://www.nyartcc.org/feedback

https://laartcc.org/feedback

https://www.ztlartcc.org/feedback/create

 

I had our webmaster take a look in our website's database to see if you left us anything, and he couldn't find any feedback with your name or CID [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated to it. I don't want to speak for any of the other facilities you've named, but from what I can tell you didn't receive a response from us because your feedback was never actually submitted. If you have any future issues don't hesitate to try our feedback system again, and if you don't receive a response within a few days, my email is published on the "ARTCC Staff" page of our website.

Daniel Everman

ZMP DATM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brandon,

I used to fly real airplanes until I lost my medical. So I am aware as to how things should work, and I'm pretty proficient in my aircraft that I simulate flying on VATSIM.
well, as a knowledgable pilot with a real life background, you should be aware of the fact that in the circomestances that you describe (STAR/approach [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned too late to prepare appropriately) you can do one great thing: communicate. Tell ATC that you will need another "x minutes to be ready for the approach" and ATC should provide you with radar vectors in the mean time or [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign you a holding. Just keep using your former tools and you'll be fine.

 

PS: I do fly for a living in the real world and we get runway changes on short notice on a regular basis. If we are not ready, we tell ATC. Simples!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please don't start a thread with, and keep posting in, that aggressive tone, only to start waving a disability-flag the second you are responded to in kind. What goes around, comes around, and no matter how insanely shitty I imagine it would be to lose my medical, I wouldn't expect courtesies in response to hostility.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Please don't start a thread with, and keep posting in, that aggressive tone, only to start waving a disability-flag the second you are responded to in kind. What goes around, comes around, and no matter how insanely [Mod-You kiss your mother with that mouth?] I imagine it would be to lose my medical, I wouldn't expect courtesies in response to hostility.

 

I never meant my tone to come across as hostile, but rather factual in what happened. When asked questions, I responded.

 

I see that 1 or more of my posts in this thread are gone. One in which I apologized.

 

So I will not post in VATSIM any more. If a response is made to me in this thread, I will not respond.

 

This is my last post in the VATSIM forums.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I never meant my tone to come across as hostile, but rather factual in what happened. When asked questions, I responded.

 

I'm always open to hearing opinions, but when you criticize the busiest, safest, and most complex airspace system in the world, without any real evidence to back it up, it would be naive to expect anything other than what you received.

 

Side note, at my facility, helicopters missing 737s by 300 feet and less than a mile is a daily occurrence. Visual separation is a handy tool.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...