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Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq?

Brandon Duncan

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I see that 1 or more of my posts in this thread are gone. One in which I apologized.
I do not think that any moderator would have deleted a post like this. Maybe it did not go through? The vARTCCs where you left some feedback have also reported that nothing arrived at their end, so there may be a technical problem on your side that we should try to solve.
So I will not post in VATSIM any more. If a response is made to me in this thread' date=' I will not respond.


This is my last post in the VATSIM forums.[/quote']That would be sad. Why stick your head in the sand?

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I see that 1 or more of my posts in this thread are gone. One in which I apologized.


So I will not post in VATSIM any more. If a response is made to me in this thread, I will not respond.


This is my last post in the VATSIM forums.


Hello Brandon,


Out of curiosity I checked the moderator logs, especially since I had just changed the subject of this thread (from Why since that has no real meaning) as well as moved it to the USA Forum.

Since this thread started, until my checking, across all of our forums there were only one thing moderated and was in a different Region.


As such, it would appear that none of your posts have been moderated or deleted.



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I want to first of say that I am sorry that your experience on that particular flight was not the best for you. I think the Training Administrator has explained that Los Angeles does in fact border Denver so that explains your initial concern. I am also glad to hear that as a virtual pilot you are cognizant of what is going on with regards to ATC procedures etc.


You have had responses from three people who are real world aviation professionals. Shane is a real world controller as is Ryan Geckler and Dhruv is a pilot and I believe he is also involved in ATC. I think that each of them has offered you reasonable professional advice that could and should be useful in the simulated environment. I am not a real world pilot but I fly a lot on this network and regardless of the approach that I am [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned or think that I will be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned, I typically back it up by programming the ILS. Dhruv is spot on in that the Center controller does not give runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments and often times at least in this environment, controllers will often say expect xxxxx runway meaning that you can expect it but he may [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign something different if needed.


Keep in mind that Center controllers on this network are providing top down service so they will keep you on frequency longer if there is a position below them that is not staffed and often times will provide the approach instructions, landing clearance and taxi instructions. Another consideration is that many of the people who are online do not have their C1 rating and are still considered a student meaning that they have not honed their skill set 100% and are still learning and gaining valuable experience.


In conclusion, I do not seek to berate anybody, I just hope that we can all walk away from this perhaps learning something new. The three controllers that I mentioned are all three professionals and spend countless hours on this network instructing and sharing their knowledge. I may not always agree with their opinion on everything and I am certain that they do not always agree with mine but make no mistake when it comes to how things are done in the real world, I trust what they say without question and would not hesitate to ask any of them a question about procedures etc. Again I am truly sorry that your experience may have been less than desirable and I hope that your next flight might be better. Keep in mind to that whoever was online controlling may not have the real world experience of Dhruv, Shane or Ryan.

Mark Hubbert

Division Director VATUSA

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1. Why is it that Denver CTR kept me on their freq all the way til handing me off to LA CTR?

TOADD is the waypoint you could have been transferred (based off your flight plan)


...which is in Denver Airspace.


2. Why is it that so many controllers are so reluctant in [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning a runway until you are about 5 minutes from your arrival airport?

As a Terminal Controller (me), you'd get a runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment and type of approach desired at about 30-50NM out which coincides with my airspace. or If you listen to the ATIS of the Arrival Airfield (if they are online), you'd have an idea of which ones are in use.

Marvin Palmer
C1 Controller
Former FE for ZAN ARTCC (now defunct)

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