OLBA CLOSED

[Ben Zwebner 906832]

I agree. Politics should be left out of VATSIM. I'm currently in Amman and I have a lot of friends in Lebanon that I am worried about. Politics is the last thing I want to think of while in flight.

 

However, given the fact that OLBA has issued NOTAMs that all runways are closed, in the spirit of simulating airport operations, I beleive that VATLEB should honor that particular NOTAM, in the name of realism. Forget the reason why that NOTAM was issued, that's political, but we're simply reading the NOTAM for what it is - and if it says that all runways are closed, then all runways are closed.

After all, if KSFO or KORD issued a NOTAM that one of its runways were closed, I think that many of us would take that NOTAM seriously and apply it to our VATSIM operations for the sake of realism - thus I see no problem here.

 

However, I'm not in any position of power to make any sort of desicion - but can simply offer my two cents.

 

May I ask a question?

I understand the point in realism and such, but i also agree with the statement made about Meigs Field in Chicago. ALSO, there are still pilots online who I see flying into Kai Tak occasionally despite its being closed for years now.

 

Would it be fair to the VATLEB people to close down their only airport online to coincide with the SURreal realism? I am not familiar with the lebonese airspace and its traffic, but if they shut down the virtual OLBA, would they have other airports to use online for their enjoyment?

[Ido Rosenthal 899496]

there is a big difference between closing down an airport in VATSIM because of virtual repairs, closing down an airport because it was shut down in reality for good and between closing down an airport because it is being bombed - this is a politics free comunity and our airports do not suffer from bomb runs.

[Ryan Donovan 935489]

I agree 100% with Mahmoud even though politics screw up vatsim and the aviation community. But OLBA did issue a NOTAM for the closer of the runways, even if they are being attacked, the runways are still closed. and we here at vatsim try to simulate real life as possible i think vatleb did the right thing.

[Ben Zwebner 906832]

thats a Kick A** Signiture Ryan!

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

This might be a bit of a reiteration of sorts, so bear with me.

 

In my three years on VATSIM, I have always viewed it as the way real society should be. It has been truly amazing to see the co-existance and friendship between VATIL and the rest of the middle eastern countries. In real life, these realations are anything but happy. However, VATSIM has fostered friendships that put a common interest first, and place politics on the back burner. Coming from a family that closely follows developments in the middle east (I have family living in Israel), I can only wish that things were as peaceful in real life as they are on VATSIM.

 

In the years to come, I hope to see continued cooperation in VATAME, as well as other regions where cooperation in real life is anything but possible.

 

I hope that everyone living in those affected countries is alright.

 

EK

[Craig Moulton]

Just to put this in some sort of perspective. While ZAU elected to keep Meigs open for "sentimental" reasons, it is up to each ARTCC/FIR/ACC as to how real world NOTAMS are implemented isn't it?

 

In ZLA for example, we are operating with Rwy 26L/8R closed at Ontario, as it is under construction in real life. I suspect that when 25L at LAX is closed for re-positioning (for that fat whale of an airbus), it will be "closed" on VATSIM.

 

I too agree that we should try to stay "above" the real world politics and continue to enjoy our hobby. If the those who operate OLBA wish to simulate it being closed...so be it.

[Jay Hsu 926068]

Just to put this in some sort of perspective. While ZAU elected to keep Meigs open for "sentimental" reasons, it is up to each ARTCC/FIR/ACC as to how real world NOTAMS are implemented isn't it?

 

In ZLA for example, we are operating with Rwy 26L/8R closed at Ontario, as it is under construction in real life. I suspect that when 25L at LAX is closed for re-positioning (for that fat whale of an airbus), it will be "closed" on VATSIM.

 

I too agree that we should try to stay "above" the real world politics and continue to enjoy our hobby. If the those who operate OLBA wish to simulate it being closed...so be it.

 

Exactly. If you don't want to fly there, don't. If you don't care about what's happening in real life (runways destroyed) then continue flying by all means. This is the same for controllers.

 

And to whoever said the Lebanese government could shut down the website, that is probably true to the extent of blocking it from view to citizens. This would only be so if you condoned Israel's actions... I see no real threat in continueing operation of the website even though real-life political events are occuring.

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

To comment on the argument that the closure of OLBA is anything like Meigs field - Meigs Field's closure was a permanent one. In all likelihood, this closure of Beirut is only temporary - be it for a few days, weeks or a few months - it is still temporary. I don't think Israel would actually destroy the airport - they just want to immobilize it, temporarily. The implications of completley destroying the airport are far too great, at least in my opinion.

 

Thus, I would say that VATLEB should be the one to choose to close the airport or keep it open. I guess it's up to them really - so long as they stay out of politics, then it's all good; and you can stay out of politics and still simulate real world circomestances.

[Ilan Jonas 860311]

Yes, VATLEB has the autonomy to choose whether to close or open an airport, and we will respect their choice. Personally I would like to see the airport open - it is a statement of good will and strong spirit, but this is only a personal view and has nothing to do with my Vatsim duty. Like I said, VATLEB is free to act as they see fit.

This thread started about statements written in VATLEB website - this has been fixed now and forgotten.

 

I wish to take this opportunity to thank you all for your support and kind words - this means so much to us, and please keep it coming!

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

As of right now I'm manning OLBA_TWR and we're only operating Runway 16 for ILS and Visual Approaches.

[Alexandre Geahel 932157]

Hello all, I'd like to thank all pilots who came in today (about 10 and more) as Mahmoud and I controlled OLBB CTR and TWR.

 

Now the situation at OLBA is awful, just as MEA lifted all their 5 a/c the IDF was angry and blew up all runwways and major taxiways except A

I'd prefer OLBA to be closed to follow the real-world NOTAM: AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SERVICE , FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE AND ARE ALERTING ARE NOT PROVIDED WITHIN BEIRUT AIRSPACE 14 JUL 12:54 UNTIL 19 JUL 12:00 / RAFIC HARIRI INT'L AIRPORT CLOSED DUE DAMAGE AFFECTING ALL RUNWAYS ( 16/34,17/35 AND 21/03 )AND TWYS AS A RESULT OF AIRRAID. 14 JUL 10:00 UNTIL 19 JUL 12:00

 

Now these notam were until the 16th and now until the 19th, the situation is getting worst and if we should follow the real-world operations, notams of that airport well ... It'd be closed.

 

What we did today at OLBA was we gave visual approach runway 16 and open A and J taxiways only but 2hours after we closed the 2nd NOTAM was issued. I'd like to thank Jeff Clark for his kind words. I'll try to update everyone on the airport's operations.

 

---------

 

As of now 0540 Z the weather station for OLBA cannot be retrived, no website offers me a METATR for it it's been a while, we cannot control without the current metar , and the "notams" we would simulate.. We are considering closing it

[Mouin El Khechen 923677]

Dear Members,

I was not able to read every post concerning this topic because I am short in time, since electricity and internet connection is repeatingly getting cut off most of the time, however, i read a few, and i am upset that a few people translate teh closure of OLBA as an act that is involved with politics. But infact, the decision was agreed upon to reflect the real life which i guess everyone is trying to do here at VATSIM.

What was posted on the VATLEB website was also not of political purpose, but just to deliver pictures and news about OLBA, for all those interested in OLBA. It had no purpose to criticise the attacks, or to call for Lebanese nationalism or what-so-ever.

Reasons and clarifications for all our actions will be discussed in private with Ilan and other supervising personel.

 

A small Notice:

Ilan said:

...it is a statement of good will and strong spirit, but this is only a personal view and has nothing to do with my Vatsim duty.

 

Dear Ilan, thank you for what you have said, and eventhough that is your personal view, i really respect it and it does mean a lot to us. We actually have the will, and have the spirit, just like you do. We have already violated lebanese laws, because we want to be a part of VATSIM, and provide our services to VATSIM members, and because we support peace; which is our personal message through VATLEB. I wil contact you as soon as I have enough time.

 

Thank you all for your understanding and support.

 

Kind regards,

Mouin

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

Dear Members,

I was not able to read every post concerning this topic because I am short in time, since electricity and internet connection is repeatingly getting cut off most of the time, however, i read a few, and i am upset that a few people translate teh closure of OLBA as an act that is involved with politics. But infact, the decision was agreed upon to reflect the real life which i guess everyone is trying to do here at VATSIM.

What was posted on the VATLEB website was also not of political purpose, but just to deliver pictures and news about OLBA, for all those interested in OLBA. It had no purpose to criticise the attacks, or to call for Lebanese nationalism or what-so-ever.

Reasons and clarifications for all our actions will be discussed in private with Ilan and other supervising personel.

 

A small Notice:

Ilan said:

...it is a statement of good will and strong spirit, but this is only a personal view and has nothing to do with my Vatsim duty.

 

Dear Ilan, thank you for what you have said, and eventhough that is your personal view, i really respect it and it does mean a lot to us. We actually have the will, and have the spirit, just like you do. We have already violated lebanese laws, because we want to be a part of VATSIM, and provide our services to VATSIM members, and because we support peace; which is our personal message through VATLEB. I wil contact you as soon as I have enough time.

 

Thank you all for your understanding and support.

 

Kind regards,

Mouin

 

Please take care of yourself and your family Mouin - and if you need anything, let me know. I'm currently in Amman so I'm not too far away.

 

Let us know how you're doing and know that our hearts and prayers are with you and your family.

[Ilan Jonas 860311]

Mouin my friend,

 

I was deeply touched with your message. Shadi and I are here to help, support and direct where needed but as before, we have full confidence in you and in VATLEB team.

 

This is madness. We live 2-3 hours drive from each other but can't meet! With god's will it would end soon. In the meantime you are all invited to fly as usaul - without politics, just for our fun.

 

Ilan

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

I think it's really admirable to see that despite two countries being in a very serious conflict, it doesn't affect friendships on VATSIM. Some are from Israel, some from Lebanon, but it really doesn't even matter here, which is something to be proud of.

 

Having said that, the point of this discussion was over confusion on what VATLEB's policy would be on the runway/airport closure. Alexandre has established they will be closed, and therefore I think this thread has served it's purpose.

[Anas Toumi 922910]

Beirut is open for humanitirain flights under conditions :

 

NOTAM ::

 

Data Current as of: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 13:48:00 GMT

 

OLBA RAFIC HARIRI INTL [back to Top]

 

A0180/06 - R.H INTL AIRPORT IS AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHTS CARRYING HUMANITARIAN AIDS WITHIN THE FOLLOWING LIMITATIONS: 1) OPERATIONAL HOURS: DAYLIGHT ONLY 2) RWY 16 FOR LANDING LDA 2000M 3) RWY 34 FOR TAKE OFF TORA 2100M 01 AUG 09:27 UNTIL 16 AUG 17:00

 

A0158/06 - ICAO REGIONAL DIRECTOR ICAO CAIRO ICAO REGIONAL DIRECTOR ICAO PARIS ATTENTION FREQUENCY MANAGMENT GROUP AND ALL CONCERNED 1)PROPOSAL TO COM TABLE MID REGION 2)PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENT TO COM TABLE OF THE MID REGION: 2.1)VHF FREQUENCY INSTALLATION FOR LOCAL OPERATOR-BEIRUT -FREQUENCY 131.375 MHZ AIR/GROUND -OUTPUT POWER 50 WATTS -GROUND BASED AT HARIRI INT'L AIRPORT-BEIRUT-LEBANON PLEASE LET ME HAVE YOUR COMMENTS BEFORE 07 SEPT 2006 NO REPLY ,MEANS DATE WILL BE TAKEN AS APPROVAL. BEST REGARDS CHIEF AIR NAVIGATION DEPARTMENT DGCA BEIRUT-LEBANON 07 JUL 08:12 UNTIL 07 SEP 12:00

 

A0115/06 - COMMUNICATION FAILURE PROCEDURE FOR VFR FLIGHT WEIGHING LESS THAN 5700KGS IF A LIGHT AIRCRAFT WEIGHING LESS THAN 5700 KGS OR A HELICOPTER,OPERATING WITHIN BEIRUT CONTROL AREA OR CONTROL ZONE ACCORDING TO VFR (EITHER LOCAL,TEST,MAP READING OR LEISURE FLIGHT) ,EXPERIENCES RADIO COMMUNICATION FAILURE THE PILOT SHALL: 1.SQUAWK 7600 2.USE THE CELLULAR PHONE TO ESTABLISH CONTACT WITH TOWER PHONE NUMBER(01629027) OR ACC(01629026) 3.IF NO CONTACT IS ESTABLISHED BY VHF OR BY CELLULAR PHONE THE AIRCRAFT SHALL: A)REMAIN IN VMC B)MAINTAIN/CLIMB, OR DESCEND TO 2000 FEET C)PROCEED VIA DORA BAY DIRECT TO THE EAST SIDE(DEAD SIDE)OF RWY 21/03,ORBIT THERE.WAIT FOR TOWER LIGHT SIGNALS. -IF A GREEN LIGHT SIGNAL IS RECEIVED THE AIRCRAFT SHALL DESCEND TO CIRCUIT HEIGHT ,JOIN RIGHT DOWN-WIND RUNWAY 17 AND LAND THERE.(THE PILOT IS REQUESTED TO KEEP AN EYE ON TOWER LIGHT SIGNALS). -IF A RED LIGHT SIGNAL IS RECEIVEID THE AIRCRAFT SHALL KEEP ORBITING (HOLDING) EAST OF RWY 21/03 IF NO LIGHT SIGNAL IS RECEIVED THE PILOT SHALL: -OBSERVE AERODROME TRAFFIC CIRCUIT AND ON HIS DISCRETION: -DESCEND TO CIRCUIT HEIGHT -JOIN RIHGT HAND DOWNWIND RUNWAY 17 AND LAND THERE 19 MAY 07:55 UNTIL PERM

 

A0098/06 - ATIS INSTALLED SERVING RAFIC HARIRI INTERNATIONBAL AIRPORT -BEIRUT WITH THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATION : -FREQUENCY 120.600 MHZ -TELEPHONE ++628000 EXT 3333 -OPERATIONAL HOURS 24H -VOICE ONLY -D-ATIS WILL BE ACTIVATED LATER BY NOTAM 18 APR 13:15 UNTIL PERM

 

 

Regards

[Alexandre Geahel 932157]

excelent news, Beirut Airport opened is a sign of relief for the Lebanese aviation enthusiasts. Let's hope the crisis ends and the airport re-opens to commercial aviation.

[Mouin El Khechen 923677]

BTW vatleb's website is active now, since 2 weaks or so.

 

see you guys soon

[Alexandre Geahel 932157]

I guess we got it!

 

A0187/06 - REF NOTAM A0183/06 PARA. 6 RADAR SERVICE AVAILABLE H24 16 AUG 07:52 UNTIL PERM

 

A0186/06 - 1AREA CONTROL SERVICE, APPROACH CONTROL SERVICE, AERODROME CONTROL SER)VICE, FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE AND ALERTING SERVICE ARE NORMAL OPERATION WITHIN BEIRUT AIRSPACE 2)OVERFLYING TRAFFIC ARE ACCEPTED 24H ENTRY/EXIT POINTS VIA NICOSIA FIR: BALMA ,KUKLA,AND SILKO ENTRY/EXIT POINTS VIA DAMASCUS FIR : LEBOR,LATEB 16 AUG 06:56 UNTIL PERM

 

It's nice to hear from you Mouin, I hope you and your family are OK.

 

Alex.