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Controllers coming on line while pilot is on short final.


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Yes, providing feedback to the facility is the right thing to do in that case.

 

Sometimes, especially with non-pilots, newer "really excited to be there" controllers see traffic and jump on it like a shark at an in-water meat-fest.... They need to be provided perspective and guidance to know why, inside 5 miles, that's not always prudent, and in a situation like that, it's perfectly acceptable for the pilot to contact ATC after landing. Should be treated as a teaching moment.

Don Desfosse
Vice President, Membership

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Sometimes it's not even possible to contact the controller within 10 miles.

 

For example, I consistently handfly the FSLabs from about FL240 to touchdown - autopilot and autothrottle off. If ATC is online and I notice prior to taking over control of the aircraft then I will have set the frequency on backup so that when closer I can simply switch. Just a quick view change in chaseplane and I'm there. If there is lots of ATC on I will have as many frequencies as I can set on both radios (so obviously the one I'm tuned into - or unicom - and three others). If I don't have any frequencies pre-tuned and then I get a contact me request, on a 10 mile final, it's quite an ask to have me, handfly the aircraft on the ILS, RNAV or VOR guidance and then switch view to the radio panel where I then have to try to quickly get the frequency tuned in. When I do try, I either fumble around for far too long tuning in the radio and/or fluff the approach up. Sometimes i just quickly switch to the vpilot window and because I can type very quickly just put "wilco asap handflying" which takes me less time than trying to tune the frequency.

 

I do check frequently when handflying, if ATC has come online so that I can preset or change frequency at a time when it's less frenetic.

 

Not criticising. Just offering some insight into what can be happening with some pilots.

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Sometimes it's not even possible to contact the controller within 10 miles.

 

For example, I consistently handfly the FSLabs from about FL240 to touchdown - autopilot and autothrottle off. If ATC is online and I notice prior to taking over control of the aircraft then I will have set the frequency on backup so that when closer I can simply switch. Just a quick view change in chaseplane and I'm there. If there is lots of ATC on I will have as many frequencies as I can set on both radios (so obviously the one I'm tuned into - or unicom - and three others). If I don't have any frequencies pre-tuned and then I get a contact me request, on a 10 mile final, it's quite an ask to have me, handfly the aircraft on the ILS, RNAV or VOR guidance and then switch view to the radio panel where I then have to try to quickly get the frequency tuned in. When I do try, I either fumble around for far too long tuning in the radio and/or fluff the approach up. Sometimes i just quickly switch to the vpilot window and because I can type very quickly just put "wilco asap handflying" which takes me less time than trying to tune the frequency.

 

I do check frequently when handflying, if ATC has come online so that I can preset or change frequency at a time when it's less frenetic.

 

Not criticising. Just offering some insight into what can be happening with some pilots.

 

Just curious if you are aware of (or if it works) the ".comm1 xxx.xxx" command to have vPilot, SB etc tune your primary frequency for you? Some a/c I've noticed it does not work all the time because of different system modeling, but if it does and you have time to type a reply...you could easily change frequencies and check in properly instead ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that you're using voice of course).

0

Anchorage Deputy Air Traffic Manager

VATSIM Senior Supervisor (Team 1)

Have a question or concern? Email me at [email protected].

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Just curious if you are aware of (or if it works) the ".comm1 xxx.xxx" command to have vPilot, SB etc tune your primary frequency for you? Some a/c I've noticed it does not work all the time because of different system modeling, but if it does and you have time to type a reply...you could easily change frequencies and check in properly instead ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that you're using voice of course).

 

Actually, no I wasn’t. And I’ve been flying online since the days of SATCO. Well everyday is a school day.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I agree. I usually don't respond if I am on short final busy doing a checklist or maybe not stabilized yet. But if I am at 1500' AGL already stabilized autopilot on I will dial the frequency and respond. So it depends on the situation and safety concerns. Same if a controller asks me something on the take off roll unless it is a safety call I will wait at least until the landing gear goes up. I would suggest controllers to write something more appropriate like "KXXX tower, DAL123 call me when able" instead.

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This guy's a troll.

 

Yup, time to let this one die. Though I will correct one misconception lest it spread:

 

Mike seems to have misinterpreted Josh's post to say that the "Contact Me" message is automatically generated by the ATC software. It is not. The controller still has to take manual action to send it. Josh's point was that the content of the message is hardcoded, and may sometimes seem harsh to the recipient. This is why I often type it manually myself when I've just come online and say something like "Just letting you know I'm online, please contact me on xxx.xxx when able."

This sounds much better

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Harold,

 

That would be great if all controllers used your example. Unfortunately they do not.

 

Wish all or most (pilots & controllers) would read these forums as there seems to be a wealth of good information & suggestions that would benefit us all.

 

Michael


 

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It would be great if all new pilots (and controllers) read the Expectations and Requirements for Pilots as found at this location:

https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/expectations-and-requirements-pilots

 

Then it might prove less necessary for controllers to interrupt the pilots during their Netlix sessions.

 

Perhaps Ross could consider a VRC update with a "contact me" m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]age that is less triggering to some of our more sensitive members?

Quig, C3, P1, VATPAC, CZQM (inact), CZQX (ret).

4200+ hrs of "Chaos, Panic & Disorder in your virtual skies!"

 

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  • 5 months later...
If you get a .contactme on final & can answer it, answer it. If you can't, don't. No one is going to get banned from the network because they got a .contactme on final & didn't answer it until after touchdown.

I did, however, get disconnected some time last year because the GROUND controller had instructed me to go around as I was on final and I never saw it until long after I had parked at the gate. Not only was he not online when I turned on final, there was no ATIS available when I turned on final, so I picked a runway and proceeded to land on it. Apparently not the runway they wanted me to land on. When I re-connected and was preparing for another flight, I was then asked to contact the ground controller, and only then was I made aware that that wasn't the runway I was supposed to land on. But how would I know that beforehand.

Captain Kevin

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I did, however, get disconnected some time last year because the GROUND controller had instructed me to go around as I was on final and I never saw it until long after I had parked at the gate. Not only was he not online when I turned on final, there was no ATIS available when I turned on final, so I picked a runway and proceeded to land on it. Apparently not the runway they wanted me to land on. When I re-connected and was preparing for another flight, I was then asked to contact the ground controller, and only then was I made aware that that wasn't the runway I was supposed to land on. But how would I know that beforehand.

 

Well to start with the ground controller does not have control of the runways (at least in North America) so they can’t make a pilot go around. Essentially it should be treated as an advisory should you receive something like that.

 

As to your question, you could look up the airport specific docomeentation to find which runways to use. Also I would advise turning on notifications in your simulator if you receive any pm’s through your pilot client. You weren’t in the wrong here but changing a few settings could avoid something similar from happening in the future.

Josh Jenk

CZVR C1 controller

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I did, however, get disconnected some time last year because the GROUND controller had instructed me to go around as I was on final and I never saw it until long after I had parked at the gate.

Did you get a message from a Supervisor stating they were disconnecting you, or, did you lose connection and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume it was because a SUP disconnected you?

Cheers,

-R.

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Were you forcibly disconnected by a supervisor? The disconnection message would say FORCIBLY. It sounds very odd that a Supervisor would do this in the circomestances shown in your message.

Yeah, I was. When I reconnected, I saw a message from a supervisor. Given how long ago it was, I don't remember exactly what was said in the message.

Well to start with the ground controller does not have control of the runways (at least in North America) so they can’t make a pilot go around.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Also I would advise turning on notifications in your simulator if you receive any pm’s through your pilot client. You weren’t in the wrong here but changing a few settings could avoid something similar from happening in the future.

Notifications were on, but if I've got both hands occupied trying to hand-fly the plane, it's going to be a little difficult to look over to my left screen, see the message, move the mouse off to the left screen, click on the message, read the message, move the mouse back to the center screen, click on the flight simulator window, change the frequency, and still be able to fly the plane in a controlled manner.

Did you get a message from a Supervisor stating they were disconnecting you, or, did you lose connection and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume it was because a SUP disconnected you?

I definitely got a message from a supervisor, that much I know. Given the length of time in which this happened, I don't remember what was said in the message.

Captain Kevin

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