Question about the CoC changes re; name

[Tim Simpson]

As I see it, the name choice is only on the front side of things. In other words, if I log on to the VATSIM server, and choose Tim S. as my display name, it will show that way for that session. But, if someone is really interested in causing me grief, they can still look up my CID, and get my full name.

 

Why didn't the board create another layer where all official VATSIM login display names could be altered for some privacy, yet keep the real name on the back end, hidden for only the VATSIM board to have access to?

 

I appreciate the small step forward in this area, since the interwebs are vastly different than the SATCO days, but I don't think it's gone far enough. The full name display on any VATSIM run server, forum, or website interface, should be able to be controlled by the end user, based on their level of comfort when it comes to privacy. Not everyone is named John Smith if you get my drift.

 

Tim

[Nick Marinov]

Tim, I believe the .net we team have been working on that for some time now. Regarding names being shown on forums, most forums that I am a member of, require you to log in via the SSO before viewing anything major, so only VATSIM members would be able to see your name. As all VATSIM members are bound to follow the CoC, should anything happen, then you can report it to [email protected]

[Nestor Perez]

The full name display on any VATSIM run server, forum, or website interface, should be able to be controlled by the end user, based on their level of comfort when it comes to privacy.

 

[Tim Simpson]

^^^^

 

Well, that is some very welcome news.

 

Tim

[Simon Kelsey]

I may be in a minority here, but I have to say I was somewhat disappointed and dismayed with this particular CoC change.

 

I've always felt that one of the things that marked VATSIM out as something of a beacon of civilisation in the online world was the fact that real names were required, with the resulting sense of community that comes of knowing who you are talking to and the moderating effect of having one's name [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with any comments or actions.

 

The issue with the previous version of this clause was that the term "real, full name" it was interpreted so literally that someone such as yourself, Tim, would have been at risk of being suspended for being in violation on the basis of logging on as 'Tim' rather than (I presume) 'Timothy'. Yes, it happened. Insane, right?

 

Now that has (sort of) been fixed (although note that you are still by the letter of the new CoC not permitted to use any form of contraction on your actual account, though it is now acceptable to put 'Tim' in the login field of your client), but we seem to have lurched to the opposite extreme of allowing people to reduce themselves to a mere random bunch of numbers.

 

Privacy is important, sure. But so is community. I think about all the people I've met on the network over the years who have become some of my best real-life friends, and I wonder whether that would have been the case if all we were was a CID.

 

Where does it end? Is society coming to the point where everybody just gets issued a nondescript code at birth rather than a name lest anybody be able to identify us?

 

 

Yours, 810049.

[Fred Shepherd 812089]

810049,

I concur completely and conveyed my thoughts to VATGOV1 the other day when I was online.

 

Kind regards,

812089 (AKA Fred Shepherd)

[Dace Nicmane]

I agree, too and I think everyone was long used to using their real name and took it for granted. I'll continue to do so and hope many people do the same.

[Tim Simpson]

I agree, too and I think everyone was long used to using their real name and took it for granted. I'll continue to do so and hope many people do the same.

 

 

Bingo! My point exactly. You'll choose to continue to log in with your real name, and that's great that you will have the choice to do that. Just like it will be equally great when I have the choice to not display my real name to anyone but VATSIM officials.

 

Choice is a good thing. It makes most people happy, especially in a world where privacy is becoming an ever elusive commodity.

 

Kudos to the powers that be for recognizing the desire many members have to restrict public access to their online footprint.

 

Regards,

 

xxx9557

[Dace Nicmane]

This is gonna cause some new problems for the supervisors. Some nations shorten their names in a not so intuitive way, e. g. for Russians, Alexander is Sasha and Alexey is Lyosha, for Poles, Jerzy (George) is Jurek etc. Are supervisors now required to know all that?

[Richard Walsh]

I will be known as Batman from now on

[Tim Simpson]

This is gonna cause some new problems for the supervisors. Some nations shorten their names in a not so intuitive way, e. g. for Russians, Alexander is Sasha and Alexey is Lyosha, for Poles, Jerzy (George) is Jurek etc. Are supervisors now required to know all that?

 

Wouldn't think that would be an issue for a supervisor, who will be able to see your full name and account info on the back end by using your CID.

 

Only people on the the public side of VATSIM, controllers and pilots, would see the less than full name. And, if you really think about it, we all use the system under an alias as a sort right now. We log in as an aircraft call sign.

 

Tim

[Dace Nicmane]

You missed my point, Tim. I was saying that sups wouldn't be able to determine whether a pilot has logged in with the same name they registered with because some of the shortened versions are too dissimilar to the basic form.

[Andreas Fuchs]

I see this change more in favour of people who call sick for school or work (for legitimate or non-legitimate reasons) and are afraid that somebody can see from the outside that they are actually "enjoying some online-time" instead of curing themselves.

 

I will definitely continue using my full real name. Or is anyone afraid of identity-theft: "hey, somebody stole my PMDG 747!!!111!!"

[Kirk Christie]

I often message people I know, who I see online to have a chat with them, since this change, I've got no idea who a person is unless I look up their ID, and if thats being removed soon, then that will make it harder to know who some one is, this was a place to make friends.

 

There goes the social aspect of the network.

 

Conversely, my full first name is Kirkland, and I have never once logged into the network using that name (I personally hate it, and people use it to get on my nerves), there was a discussion some time ago about using short names, like Tim and Matt, some one said that was not allowed, but then we had founders who were using short names also.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hey Kirk (without the "land" ),

 

don't you have a list of friends in one of the online-viewers? I do use Qutescoop (http://qutescoop.sourceforge.net/ ) and I simply added all "persons of interest" to my friend list there. Whenever they are online, they'll show up both in a list and they'll be marked up on the graphical display.

 

Here's a friend of mine online:

 

 

(I have blanked out his name for privacy reasons), but you can get all the details and you notice the green circle around his flight. You can customize the colours etc..

[Simon Kelsey]

Hey Kirk (without the "land" ),

 

don't you have a list of friends in one of the online-viewers? I do use Qutescoop (http://qutescoop.sourceforge.net/ ) and I simply added all "persons of interest" to my friend list there. Whenever they are online, they'll show up both in a list and they'll be marked up on the graphical display.

 

The problem is that whilst that works for people you have got to know already, in future unless you memorise their CID you won't know who they are to get chatting in the first place.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Just add them all to the list and they will show up accordingly. Also, I do not expect a majority of users switch to incomplete or unrecognizable names/CIDs. I will not, for sure. I find this "oh, nobody should see what I am doing as my hobby" quite childish. NOBODY CARES WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE.

[Simon Kelsey]

Just add them all to the list and they will show up accordingly. Also, I do not expect a majority of users switch to incomplete or unrecognizable names/CIDs. I will not, for sure. I find this "oh, nobody should see what I am doing as my hobby" quite childish. NOBODY CARES WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE.

 

I quite agree with you and hope you are correct: but to reiterate, in future once the stats site changes, if someone uses just their CID to log in to the network the only way you will be able to link that CID to a name is if they tell you directly. You will still be able to add CIDs to Qutescoop/VATSPY etc of course but all that will tell you is that 1536833 is online, along with 1548352 and 1538384.

 

This is my point: whereas in the past you would become familiar with the names of other pilots and controllers who regularly fly in your airspace, going forward all you may have is a bunch of CIDs. Will you remember 1746383 next time they come back and have a friendly chat, or will they just get lost in the mix with 1638322 and 1745273 etc? Don't forget this may well even extend to forums etc by the sounds of it.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Oh, I see what you mean. Then we'll need to build a database that collects all IDs and names

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I do not expect a majority of users switch to incomplete or unrecognizable names/CIDs.

A quick informal survey just now:

420 total pilots logged on

2 using first name, last initial

10 using first name only

5 using CID only

403 using first and last name

 

I know that ratio will change as word continues to spread about the new guidelines, but, for now it seems the vast majority are proceeding as they were.

[Tim Simpson]

Just add them all to the list and they will show up accordingly. Also, I do not expect a majority of users switch to incomplete or unrecognizable names/CIDs. I will not, for sure. I find this "oh, nobody should see what I am doing as my hobby" quite childish. NOBODY CARES WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE.

 

Right. Got it. So, if my opinion on the privacy issue doesn't align completely with your opinion, it's childish. It's thinking like this that has kept VAT from moving forward in any meaningful way over the past 10 years.

 

smh

 

Tim

[Tim Simpson]

Oh, I see what you mean. Then we'll need to build a database that collects all IDs and names

 

That's a good point. Hopefully the VATSIM BoG will start licensing the use of it's data, and stop the open s[Mod - lovely stuff]ing of data that currently goes on. I would expect that VATSIM would make any user of its proprietary data to adhere to the same privacy guarantees that VATSIM does. If nothing else, VATSIM has a very large database that it should protect, and take advantage of. The user database is VATSIMs biggest resource.

 

Tim

[Kirk Christie]

Hey Kirk (without the "land" ),

 

don't you have a list of friends in one of the online-viewers? I do use Qutescoop (http://qutescoop.sourceforge.net/ ) and I simply added all "persons of interest" to my friend list there. Whenever they are online, they'll show up both in a list and they'll be marked up on the graphical display.

 

Here's a friend of mine online:

 

 

(I have blanked out his name for privacy reasons), but you can get all the details and you notice the green circle around his flight. You can customize the colours etc..

 

Usually in VAT-SPY but then often it has a fit with XML errors and you lose the list trying to repair the issue.

[Bill Casey]

It must be 10 years since I last posted on here but this issue does mystify me to the extent that I am posting on it!

 

I just do not get what this de-humanising of Vatsim is supposed to achieve? One's name alone is not personally identifiable information (even GDPR says that) since many people have the same names. If it was then a quick Google would tell you that "I" used to be head of the CIA

 

Does removing names benefit Vatsim? No. In fact it would be hugely detrimental to the community aspects. I've just spent a brilliant weekend in a hotel doing Vatsim-UK's longest running annual event (Midsummer Madness XIII) with people who have been personal friends for up to 15 years. Would I have got to know them if they had just been PID's? No. Would we be doing that hugely successful event? No.

 

Does removing names benefit individuals? No! Some might think it does but since names are (extremely rarely) unique then it doesn't mean diddly squat to the casual observer.

 

I just don't get it. I dread to think how much "management" time has been put into this idea which clearly has no benefit to the network and indeed will be detrimental to what it tries to achieve. It just seems daft to me.

 

Yours

 

907213

(former head of the CIA and with a waypoint named after "me" by "myself")

[Gary Townsend]

Just add them all to the list and they will show up accordingly. Also, I do not expect a majority of users switch to incomplete or unrecognizable names/CIDs. I will not, for sure. I find this "oh, nobody should see what I am doing as my hobby" quite childish. NOBODY CARES WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE.

 

Right. Got it. So, if my opinion on the privacy issue doesn't align completely with your opinion, it's childish. It's thinking like this that has kept VAT from moving forward in any meaningful way over the past 10 years.

 

smh

 

Tim

 

Tim you have a really realy, really childish habit of putting words in other peoples mouths, so if you want to talk about childish actions you should start there .