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Requesting a Clearance "As Filed"


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Kidding aside, I said that I don't want ATC on every flight. I didn't say I want to avoid ATC.

 

I understand your want for an exact copy of real ATC. It's noble to strive for that. Unfortunately, that is the reason ATC coverage for any flight outside of an event, is spotty at best.

 

Unfortunately, the status quo is hard to break. People get stuck in their ways, even when they see that the status quo is inadequate. Your thinking unfortunately is pervasive in the network, so change is unlikely.

Negative, ghostrider!

 

1) when you write that you don't want ATC on every flight, this is okay. If you don't want ATC, do NOT log on to VATSIM, very easy. Instead, you are trying to be smart and just be aware for 30 minutes or more until you leave the active sector that you have been in. If you ever do this with me, you'll get a ticket for sure.

 

2) Nobody in their right mind ever wrote that VATSIM is trying to copy the real world 100%. Ever. VATSIM is striving to emulate the real world as much as possible, where it makes sense. If this is not your piece of cake, please move on.

 

3) I think you are trying to troll us a bit and this is the end of this conversation between me and you. Have a nice day.

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Instead, you are trying to be smart and just be aware for 30 minutes or more until you leave the active sector that you have been in. If you ever do this with me, you'll get a ticket for sure.

 

Agreed. The CoC allows for an unattended connection for up to 30 minutes if it becomes necessary for the pilot to attend a real life issue. So if someone were to be away from their computer for 31+ minutes, then yes, a disconnection would be warranted. But up to 30 minutes is within the CoC, and acceptable, as I read it. Is there an interpretation that refines the CoC?

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That being said, yes, this is a hobbyist network. I don't think it's a battle worth fighting.
The best thing VATSIM could do would be to create commonalities in airspace, that while diverging from real world, still provide a real, and believable ATC experience to the pilot. Things like all center airspace ends at 14,000 feet, and all approach airspace extends from the ground to 13,999 feet. Remove all airspace shelves, and simplify the airspace.

Tim -- I said specifically that the two words "as filed" aren't worth battling over, not that we should turn the whole of VATSIM into a glorified game. I do this as a hobby and yet I take great pride in the fact that what I do strongly resembles how trained professionals do the same thing. Don't purport my notion that slight imperfections in phraseology should fall down a slippery slope of "nobody needs charts, make everything the same everywhere because that's easier." (Side note: your implication that the real-world national airspace system is complex just for the sake of being complex, rather than that the variances from one region to another exist for a legitimate reason, is absolutely amusing as all get-out to me.) I guess while we're at it, let's put an ILS on every runway and reduce aircraft physics to "push up to go up and push down to go down."

 

There will always be a few facets of VATSIM that won't be able to replicate the real world completely faithfully - - and SOME leeway should be given for that, and for pilots that aren't as far along in the learning process as others. But accepting imperfection is a LONG way from complete abandonment of realism. I for one would not fly on a network like what you described for even one minute, regardless of how often ATC was staffed.

Cheers,

-R.

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Instead, you are trying to be smart and just be aware for 30 minutes or more until you leave the active sector that you have been in. If you ever do this with me, you'll get a ticket for sure.

 

Agreed. The CoC allows for an unattended connection for up to 30 minutes if it becomes necessary for the pilot to attend a real life issue. So if someone were to be away from their computer for 31+ minutes, then yes, a disconnection would be warranted. But up to 30 minutes is within the CoC, and acceptable, as I read it. Is there an interpretation that refines the CoC?

 

Tim, as one of the authors of the CoC nowhere does it mention anything about real life issues. You want to keep debating it then fine, please feel free to email me vpcrm at vatsim.net and we can continue there. Your interpretation is wrong both here and in the previous threads.

Norman

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The CoC allows for an unattended connection for up to 30 minutes if it becomes necessary for the pilot to attend a real life issue.
Tim, as one of the authors of the CoC nowhere does it mention anything about real life issues.

... not to mention that the "real life issue" in Tim's example is "I don't feel like dealing with ATC today." I guess "necessary" is in the eye of the beholder, huh, champ?

Cheers,

-R.

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  • 2 weeks later...

- Aero 211, turn right heading 355

- heading 355, Aero 211

Usually I would say "right heading 355" in case of turning closer to 180 degrees or more - when its important what side to turn into, right or left .... if its 90 degrees turn, for example I fly 270 degrees and receive right turn to 355, then I would just readback "heading 355".

So here's a real-world situation that I heard on LiveATC a few months back. A Delta flight was taking off from runway 4L at JFK, which requires a right turn to heading 100 shortly after take-off. The Delta flight was airborne and starting the turn to 100 when another plane that was landing on 4R was going around and about to make a right turn. During Delta's turn, the controller instructed them to turn right heading 070. The pilots asked for clarification that they wanted them to turn RIGHT to heading 070 (presumably already past 070 at this point). The controller restated the instruction of the right turn to heading 070, to which the Delta flight continued the right turn to loop around for a heading of 070. Departure controller must have been out of the loop because when they contacted the departure controller, they were told by the controller to stop their turn.

Captain Kevin

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  • 2 months later...

 

The one that I find common nowadays is pilots not knowing the difference between a Flight level and an Altitiude and say things like..."P[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing flight level 4000 feet".

 

 

This always makes me laugh as a controller. Buddy, if your little 319 can make it up to FL4000, you better contact NASA.

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Ben Stevenson

Chief Instructor

Toronto FIR (CZYZ)

torontofir.ca

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