NATTrak ?

[David Cross]

So I just started to learn how to cross the pond. I like using a Concord to do so. I came across this tool, during my search for information. Apparently this is a position reporting tool used to CTP.  I logged in using my Vatsim credentials but once logged in, I do not see any menu other than the Log off option. Is this tool only used during the CTP events, or is it available all the time? 

Maybe this only works on a certain browser? For that matter, I don't think CTP website is up either... 

This is the link to the tool

https://nattrak.vatsim.net/

2nd question. I know there are no limitations on using the Concord during routine operations and such, but will the concord be permitted to fly it's normal Mach 2.0 speeds during the next CTP East Bound? If yes, is there any source information pertaining to this type of Aircraft during such a busy event?  What if any special conditions would apply?  

Thanks for any information,

Dave.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

3 minutes ago, David Cross said:

will the concord be permitted to fly it's normal Mach 2.0 speeds during the next CTP East Bound? If yes, is there any source information pertaining to this type of Aircraft during such a busy event?  What if any special conditions would apply?

You certainly may, but, don't worry about booking a timed slot for the event unless you want to fly at +/-M0.85 at +/-FL330 like the rest of us, LOL.  Since you'll be well above and way faster than all the slotted traffic, there'll be no need to pigeonhole you into a specific hole in the metered flow.  The controllers will work your departure and arrival into sequence as they will with anyone else flying during the event without a pre-booked slot.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

As to question one, it may or may not be used outside of the semi-annual CTP events; I don' t know.  But it would certainly only be used if someone is actually actively staffing Gander Oceanic or Shanwick.  If you look on VAT-Spy or SimAware or VATTastic and don't see any ATC online over the North Atlantic, you can bet that no one is monitoring those position reports.

[Andreas Fuchs]

After logging in you will only see more menu options when you are actually logged in to VATSIM as pilot or ATC. I haven't tried it now to see if it also works outside the CTP event series. Give it a shot.

[David Cross]

4 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

You certainly may, but, don't worry about booking a timed slot for the event unless you want to fly at +/-M0.85 at +/-FL330 like the rest of us

Thank you for that! I didn't think about the reserved slot bit. But that makes sense. The only problem may be if I do not grab a departure slot, that I could tentatively be on a ground hold for hours. So Maybe waiting till after the 1st wave of flights have already departed before I log in would be best. Or even better, maybe start out of a towered Field, but not one which is Hosting a departure field. That may work... 

 

3 hours ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

After logging in you will only see more menu options when you are actually logged in to VATSIM as pilot or ATC

Ah ok.  Didn't think about having to 1st be logged in. Makes perfect sense. 

Thanks,

Dave. 

[Andrew Ogden]

natTRAK is available for use outside of CTP. (works wonderfully too! 😃)

Most oceanic controllers should know to check the tool, however give them a buzz if you don't receive an acknowledgement.

Voice reports are still accepted, however we are looking to align to a more realistic ADS-B/C type simulation in the future.

Cheers,

Edited May 5, 2020 at 12:15 AM by Andrew Ogden

[Zach Biesse-Fitton]

Quote

Maybe this only works on a certain browser? For that matter, I don't think CTP website is up either... 

CTP website is offline right now, since there is no 'active' CTP event. 🙂

[Andrew Ogden]

 

[deleted]

Edited May 5, 2020 at 12:37 AM by Andrew Ogden

[David Cross]

Thanks for the info. : )

[Morten Jelle]

13 hours ago, Andrew Ogden said:

natTRAK is available for use outside of CTP. (works wonderfully too! 😃)

Most oceanic controllers should know to check the tool, however give them a buzz if you don't receive an acknowledgement.

Voice reports are still accepted, however we are looking to align to a more realistic ADS-B/C type simulation in the future.

Cheers,

Is this tool also provided to members who are not Oceanic validated via Gander but VATSIM UK? Because I haven't found any information on the VATSIM UK website about this tool for controllers. Or maybe we should consider applying for Gander instead of Shanwick? 😁

[Robert Shearman Jr]

22 hours ago, David Cross said:

if I do not grab a departure slot, that I could tentatively be on a ground hold for hours. So Maybe waiting till after the 1st wave of flights have already departed before I log in would be best. Or even better, maybe start out of a towered Field, but not one which is Hosting a departure field. That may work... 

I think "for hours" is kind of worst-case scenario.  Departing from a larger facility like EHAM, where there are lots of potential departure runways, might partially or fully mitigate any delay.  (Although I heard that this past time around, because of the extreme global circumstances surrounding the event, promising "no delay" sort of bit them in the you-know-what...)

Departing from a staffed, non-event departure field should be good.  And I concur that departing after the main CTP rush should work just fine in either case.  You'll still beat us all to the other side, no doubt.  😉

Edited May 5, 2020 at 09:08 PM by Robert Shearman Jr

[David Cross]

1 hour ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Departing from a staffed, non-event departure field should be good.  And I concur that departing after the main CTP rush should work just fine in either case.  You'll still beat us all to the other side, no doubt. 

lol. Yep so true. 

[Andrew Ogden]

8 hours ago, Morten Jelle said:

Is this tool also provided to members who are not Oceanic validated via Gander but VATSIM UK? Because I haven't found any information on the VATSIM UK website about this tool for controllers. Or maybe we should consider applying for Gander instead of Shanwick? 😁

I see no reason why Shanwick wouldn't have access to this. The system is permission based per CID, so as long as a particular controller has access then they should be able to use it.

Happy to also add anybody who doesn't have access but should.

As for applying to Gander? Well of course you know my answer to that 😉
https://ganderoceanic.com/dashboard/application 

Cheers,

[Andreas Fuchs]

Definitely works for Shanwick as well, I used it during CTP as EGGX_DEL.

[David Cross]

Okay. Finally got a chance to try this. Unfortunately there were no oceanic controllers online during my flight. so I didn't really experience the whole thing yet. Anyway, a couple of questions relating to the submission form. The form is definitely set up for regular long haul AC. With NAT requesting NAT Track info and such. 

- Track: So when it tells me to select a Track, I think the only track avail was Z during today's flight. This had to be chosen to proceed. 

- Random route:. I just copied and paste the Legacy Concorde Route of NAT-SM ( Concorde West Bound ) into this spot. 

My question on this section would be do I only include the NAT-SM Lat and Lon or the entire flight plan? Here is the entire flight plan so maybe someone can highlight the WP's which need to be put in the Random Route section.  These are the 9 GPS WP's. My entire route at clearance was EGLL to KJFK { CPT3F CPT  MALBY  KESUP  MERLY  LESLU 5041N01500W 5050N02000W 5030N03000W 4916N04000W 4703N05000W 4610N05300W 4414N06000W 4246N06500W 4200N06700W SEY PARCH3 } 

- NAT Entry FIX: So I assume this box will contain the WP "LESLU"? I'm pretty sure that is correct.

- NAT Entry ETA: Self explanatory. 

- TMI :  This one confused everyone I asked lol. SInce I'm flying at FL 540 I just put "540" in this spot?

- ATL" FL540

- Speed, I placed Mach 2.0. 

- Then the arrival airport last. 

Once I submit the request, It was never picked up due to no one online. But if there would of been a controller, I guess I would not need to do anything from there. The check in's are done automatically? 

- It took me 30 minutes from take off to arriving at LESLU. So I guess I better file the clearance once I'm holding short to make sure you have it within the 30 minutes?

I'm one more step closer to understanding this process lol. 

Thanks. 

Dave. 

 

 

[Kirk Christie]

TMI is the track message identifier,  it is the day of the year if Jan 1 is TMI001 and Dec 31 is TMI365, it just confirms that the track you are using is today's published track. 

Currently only one track is being published during the  COVID-19 pandemic because there is not that many aircraft flying so they only need one track. 

There should be an option for random routing, if there isn't then it should be considered. 

[David Cross]

1 hour ago, Kirk Christie said:

TMI is the track message identifier,  it is the day of the year if Jan 1 is TMI001 and Dec 31 is TMI365,

Thank you. Okay. I understand the TMI now. Thank you.  The only question remaining is which WP's do I place in the Random Routing? Yes there is an option for random routing, but all fields are required to push through the Clr Request. So you still have to select a NAT even if not using it. That's fine though, I just need to know which WP's go in that field. I assume Oceanic controllers don't care about the SID and STAR. So that's why I figured only file the LAT and LON positions. Or do you just copy and paste the entire orig Clr into this slot? Thanks for the reply.

Dave. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Quote

which WP's do I place in the Random Routing?

Coordinates for waypoints (former SM track), it appears oceanic random route: (LESLU) 5041N01500W 5050N02000W 5030N03000W 4916N04000W 4703N05000W
(SM waypoint identifiers, SM15W, etc, have been retired)

Also consider filing and other information here: Concorde Routes In Current Airacs
[updated through 2017; thanks Kyp!]

For the follow-up questions, legacy info might also be useful:
- Concorde Flight Plans, Concorde Pilot Procedures (dated/external)

Edited May 8, 2020 at 08:25 AM by Mike Sweeney

[Andrew Ogden]

Best practice is to file your clearance between 15 and 30 minutes before your NAT entry, unless you're flying out of an airport that is situated close to the boundary. The controller should then process your request by the time you enter the zone.

Please feel free to browse our resources here too!

 

[Kyprianos Biris]

8 hours ago, Mike Sweeney said:

[updated through 2017; thanks Kyp!]

My pleasure Mike 😉

[Luke Brown]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:10 AM, Andrew Ogden said:

then they should be able to use it.

The problem is when I've tried to use it whilst controlling, the system only allows clearance and posreps on the organised track. On a normal day contorlling oceanic, certainly with only one track in each direction, most of the traffic is a) on an old track or b) on a random route. With that in mnd, if 90% of the traffic can't use it, then it's just useless.

Aside from that, I find that NATtrak doesn't notify you when you get a clearance request or pos rep, anf you can quite easily miss them.

I've been an avid user of Anders' system for a long while (https://www.oceanic.andersmoen.com/atc/ ) This is what I have on my screen, it adds so much more to the expereince rather than a spreadsheet, including Hoppie CPDLC integration. If NATTrak could tell me when I have a request or POSREP, then I can simply feed the data from it into the system. Or even beter, if it could do it automatically! (a man can dream)

[Andrew Ogden]

43 minutes ago, Luke Brown said:

The problem is when I've tried to use it whilst controlling, the system only allows clearance and posreps on the organised track. On a normal day contorlling oceanic, certainly with only one track in each direction, most of the traffic is a) on an old track or b) on a random route. With that in mnd, if 90% of the traffic can't use it, then it's just useless.

Aside from that, I find that NATtrak doesn't notify you when you get a clearance request or pos rep, anf you can quite easily miss them.

I've been an avid user of Anders' system for a long while (https://www.oceanic.andersmoen.com/atc/ ) This is what I have on my screen, it adds so much more to the expereince rather than a spreadsheet, including Hoppie CPDLC integration. If NATTrak could tell me when I have a request or POSREP, then I can simply feed the data from it into the system. Or even beter, if it could do it automatically! (a man can dream)

I think everything you have said is very true. It's awesome but I find it to be a little bit inflexible for all the reasons you stated above. I'd argue on one level it shouldn't be too flexible, because if the system lets pilots input garbage you're only going to get garbage back out, but on another level there should be a degree of flexibility so that it allows pilots to input reports who do not fit the criteria the system expects (at the moment a valid NAT or random routing). Still a work in progress though, I'm sure these features can be considered for future releases 😄.

I personally have not used Anders' system a lot, but have found it to be inflexible when I have, particularly in regards to pilots who are already in the NAT when you log on. The last time I used it I had to tab through the whole pilot's route to be able to enter a position report for the waypoint they were reporting, and they had already recited the whole thing by the time I got even close to being ready. 

Quite possible I am just ignorant towards it's proper use though. I am very happy to be schooled on how to use it, because I am not a fan of the spreadsheet either 😀. I must give a kudos to Anders, it looks very nice and has a lot of potential.

Edited May 9, 2020 at 09:49 AM by Andrew Ogden

[Andreas Fuchs]

2 hours ago, Andrew Ogden said:

Quite possible I am just ignorant towards it's proper use though. I am very happy to be schooled on how to use it, because I am not a fan of the spreadsheet either 😀. I must give a kudos to Anders, it looks very nice and has a lot of potential.

Yes, it does take a bit of training and being aware of potential traps when and how you enter POS REPs, especially when people call up in the middle of the Ocean.