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Eurocontrol Islands Removal


Nick Marinov
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Hello everyone.

I hardly ever fly in the EURI sector so I am not able to discuss some technicism with you about the operations, but as Nick said, I am sure it was a hard decision and when you are in a staff position this is a daily problem. So I think if the Divisional and FIR staff involved on this agree with the removal of EURI, it should be the best decision. And if they consider to overturn this decision in the future for any cause or event, I am positive they will do it. Time will tell.

This is my simple opinion being a member of another VATSIM region.

Kind regards! 

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On 3/8/2021 at 6:33 PM, Torben Andersen said:

You are absolutely correct - off cause there will be issues. Especially if you expect EURx to mirror one-to-one the services given by local ctr. If you on the other hand acknowledge that limitations exists, then it is possible to make a working solution. But only stating that EURx is unreallistic - implying that the rest of our great network is realistic, is not a fair comparison. Plenty of issues exists, if you compare RW atc with our system. Years ago you hardly ever saw UK controller do top-down. Today we live with that, as we all want atc (well, almost all). But it is a nessescity, if we would like more than just rudimentary atc, as we're not able to man all positions at all times. The need  for EURx is markedly less than earlier, but still needed, IF you want atc coverage widely.

Sorry Torben, but if you're happy with aircraft being handed off 20 miles inside your sector at 10,000ft too high then you put up with that "limitation".

Even if there's no "knowledge" solution to agreed levels with neighbouring sectors, the tools are there.   Sector files have agreements built in, with handover levels available in the tags.   If they can't see those agreements in the tags/lists, then there's a fundamental issue with the training/documentation as this should be expressed very clearly to encourage goodwill between EC controllers and local Area controllers.

On 3/8/2021 at 6:33 PM, Torben Andersen said:

Oh, but you have. Atc is not flying the aircraft. You as the pilot is responcible for a timely request for descent, not ATC.

I once timed myself trying to get a descent - I gave up at 4 minutes...   Yes, the pilot is responsible but so is the controller.  Controllers are responsible for a "safe, orderly and expeditious" flow of traffic.   If you can't provide that across your sector, then you're covering too large an area.

Yes, people want ATC - but they want a service that doesn't leave them shaking their heads with frustration as they try to fly and that is all too often the experience with these oversized, unrealistic areas that have been made up in the VATSIM world.  As a controller, I've questioned why people have filed FL240 for some flights.   Answer given?   "Eurocontrol is online..."   I welcome this move but it's also time to rethink the others...

Edited by Trevor Hannant
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Trevor Hannant

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Trevor, I agree that we have the necessary documentation and it should be followed more. 

When we train new members on a EURx position, we hand them over all the necessary information (including all mentioned above) in order to provide a certain quality of controlling. Whether the member applies such when controlling we don't know, but we would like to. What we have always said is, if someone has any feedback regarding a certain situation (whether as adjancent ATC or pilot) then please send this. If we know what the issues are we can work on them as fast as possible in order to avoid future recurrent issues.

Regarding pilots filing FL240 with the reason being "Eurocontrol is online", well yeah go ahead and do that - your loss not mine. Everybody is free to do whatever they like 🙂

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MATTIA TORTI
Division Director
Network Senior Supervisor
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