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Flying VFR departure (LSGG)


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I'm wondering about exactly how to fly a VFR departure out of Geneva airport. Attached you see a part of the VAC. So if I'm approved for the Whiskey departure how do I actually fly? I of course fly to the W reference point (from rwy 22) - but do I need to fly to NW since the arrow points to there and it says Whiskey?! And the same question of course goes for the Sierra departure. Assuming I would be flying northeast (and taking off rwy 22) how would I be flying?

And where should I go after passing W? If I'm below 3500 ft I would assume I can fly anywhere outside the class D airspace?

Also, do I need to report overflying the points since they are filled out even though controller hasn't asked for it?

I also attached a part of the Sion (LSGS) VAC where I see a half filled reporting point named W. AFAIK a filled triangle means mandatory reporting, while white means you don't need to report. But what does the half filled mean?

lsgg-vfr.jpg

lsgs-vfr.jpg

Edited by Allan Jensen
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If you're routeing NE then I'd expect you would be given the November departure. Thereafter, outside Class D proceed under your own navigation to the NE. I think the arrows pointing at the NW reference point are paths to take from the initial departure W or N for a NW routeing, probably to avoid the terrain to the N.

Alistair Thomson

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Definition: a gentleman is a flying instructor in a Piper Cherokee who can change tanks without getting his face slapped.

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18 hours ago, Allan Jensen said:

I'm wondering about exactly how to fly a VFR departure out of Geneva airport. Attached you see a part of the VAC. So if I'm approved for the Whiskey departure how do I actually fly? I of course fly to the W reference point (from rwy 22) - but do I need to fly to NW since the arrow points to there and it says Whiskey?! And the same question of course goes for the Sierra departure. Assuming I would be flying northeast (and taking off rwy 22) how would I be flying?

And where should I go after passing W? If I'm below 3500 ft I would assume I can fly anywhere outside the class D airspace?

Also, do I need to report overflying the points since they are filled out even though controller hasn't asked for it?

I also attached a part of the Sion (LSGS) VAC where I see a half filled reporting point named W. AFAIK a filled triangle means mandatory reporting, while white means you don't need to report. But what does the half filled mean?

lsgg-vfr.jpg

lsgs-vfr.jpg

I’m not an ATC in Switzerland, but in case of route published for VFR’s you must check also the details. In this chart, if you look all these arrows, some of them have a continuous line, others a dashed line. If you look carefully seems that all continuous line arrows are directed into the airport, and all arrows with a dashed line are basically outbound. If you would depart via W fix, after that point, I don’t think that you can’t proceed via NW and N points, just be careful in case of other VFR which are directed into Geneve.
 

Regarding Sion, I can’t reply you, because I don’t know that airport, but in some airports could be published some VRP’s for night operations. In Italy these points are indicated in blue, and they must be used in substitution of standard waypoints. You should check better the VFR chart legenda or the chart LSGS 1-1 with all general information about the airport.

 

 

Sometimes things get complicated. ATC on VATSIM as Milano Radar (LIMM_N_CTR) Twitch channel https://www.twitch.tv/italianalien21

 

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Geneva: the same chart made by Jeppesen is much clearer and should answer your questions without any further comment needed, right?

lsggvfr.jpg.a5de28f618210094b9a8d825bf37d1a1.jpg

 

Sion: I had a look at the VFR approach chart produced by Jeppesen. Both NW and W have the exact same symbol and I also could not find additional information about the original VFR AIP showing W with a half-filled symbol. @Jonas Kuster will probably have the knowledge to fill this gap.

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9 hours ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

should answer your questions without any further comment needed, right?

Totally. Yes. Quite so. Intuitively obvious from the diagram, as my old Physics Prof used to say to a class of 200 bemused students, having not supplied a diagram - he said we could draw it ourselves...

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Alistair Thomson

===

Definition: a gentleman is a flying instructor in a Piper Cherokee who can change tanks without getting his face slapped.

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1 hour ago, Roger Walther said:

Route W out of RWY 22 is following the right-hand circuit crosswind and then directly to point Whiskey.
Out of RWY 04 you would join the left-hand downwind and at the end of downwind turn directly to Whiskey.

So after reaching Whiskey waipoint I'm free to go where I want since I'm now outside any class D or C airspace - and I don't need to follow the route to NW which is labeled Whiskey - that is only for arrivals.

You missed the other few questions I had:

1. Is it correctly understood that because the triangle is filled it is a mandatory reporting point even if ATC haven't asked me to report it?

2. What does a half-filled triangle mean?

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47 minutes ago, Allan Jensen said:

So after reaching Whiskey waipoint I'm free to go where I want since I'm now outside any class D or C airspace - and I don't need to follow the route to NW which is labeled Whiskey - that is only for arrivals.

You missed the other few questions I had:

1. Is it correctly understood that because the triangle is filled it is a mandatory reporting point even if ATC haven't asked me to report it?

2. What does a half-filled triangle mean?

sorry about that 🙂

as long as you're staying below the TMA with Airspace C and outside of D - you're free to go where you'd like
And yes, departures go directly to W 
W-NW-GW are for arrivals

1. correct - fully filled triangle is a mandatory reporting point (although on VATSIM we're not that strict and usually tell the pilot when to report next).

2. the half-filled triangle at Sion means it's compulsary for ARR only

Edited by Roger Walther
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