Sean Harrison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:41 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:41 AM Seems some people are allowed to post assumptions, but others have to prove their content. That’s totally a level playing field. Sean C1/O P3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bywater Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:41 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:41 AM Aside from the "legality" of the process (I do agree on the reading of the agreement that its the Division Directors or Board of Governors that need to agree to any change or suspension of the agreement and not the Regional Vice Presidents) it would be interesting to know a bit of the backstory about the "why". Is there an issue that has been occurring that this change hopes to solve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Teale Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:42 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:42 AM It seems fairly clear that there must be some "issue" here, else we wouldnt be getting a unilateral ultimatum a couple days in advance of the implementation date... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Gardiner Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:44 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:44 AM 2 minutes ago, Dylan Lundberg said: I mean, it is called Oakland Oceanic... The other positions in the agreement are called Brisbane Radio and Auckland Radio. thank you for your service. 2 Chris Gardiner | 1546444 Events Director | VATPAC5 C3 Controller | I3 instructor E: [email protected] E: [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandra Robison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:45 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:45 AM Just now, Chris Gardiner said: The other positions in the agreement are called Brisbane Radio and Auckland Radio. thank you for your service. Per the agreement, Brisbane and Auckland are not being transferred to ZOA as far as I know. It's just ZAK. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Teale Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:46 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:46 AM Per the agreement, no one is doing anything unilaterally, despite recent unfounded claims to the contrary... And were anyone doing anything unilaterally, it would ipso facto not be per the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Harrison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:47 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:47 AM 1 minute ago, Alexandra Robison said: Per the agreement, Brisbane and Auckland are not being transferred to ZOA as far as I know. It's just ZAK. What Agreement? What agreement are you now referring too? Or is it more assumption? Sean C1/O P3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lundberg Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:47 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:47 AM 1 minute ago, Chris Gardiner said: The other positions in the agreement are called Brisbane Radio and Auckland Radio. thank you for your service. Sorry, those are irrelevant to the discussion considering Oakland ARTCC wants their Oceanic airspace back. Don't thank me for my service, a date would good tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Christie Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:48 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:48 AM Nothing is being transfered anywhere. Under the paciffic Oceanic partnership ZOA, VATPAC and VATNZ have all been responsable for their own oceanic airspace. However all oceanic rated controllers in each division, plus some visitors had un restricted access to control in any of the positions listed. ZOA have decided, on their own accord, to leave the Partnership, thus ending the partnership. 2 Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3 VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Gardiner Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:49 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:49 AM 1 minute ago, Dylan Lundberg said: Sorry, those are irrelevant to the discussion considering Oakland ARTCC wants their Oceanic airspace back. Don't thank me for my service, a date would good tho. I fail to see what your original comment had to do with the discussion… Chris Gardiner | 1546444 Events Director | VATPAC5 C3 Controller | I3 instructor E: [email protected] E: [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Teale Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:50 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:50 AM 1 minute ago, Kirk Christie said: ZOA have decided, on their own accord, to leave the Partnership, thus ending the partnership. This is not quite correct, Kirk - ZOA lack the ability to dissolve the partnership, per the Pacific Oceanic Agreement. Two cases exist which end the partnership, and neither of them have been satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Christie Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:50 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:50 AM 2 minutes ago, Dylan Lundberg said: Oakland ARTCC wants their Oceanic airspace back. They never lost their airspace, they always had it. https://pacificoceanic.vatsim.net/ 1 Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3 VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lundberg Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:51 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:51 AM I mentioned a control position that is word for word the title of the thread. Either way, what's the big deal here? What are the connection statistics for non-VATUSA members that worked ZAK over the lets say, 12 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Barber Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:52 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:52 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, Ryan Parry said: This is post is not inaccurate. By the way thanks for reinforcing my point. So what you are saying is, my post stating that your post is inaccurate is accurate? 😄 Edited August 29, 2021 at 04:52 AM by Greg Barber 4 1 Greg Barber VATPAC3 - Director ATC Training & Standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandra Robison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:53 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:53 AM 5 minutes ago, Sean Harrison said: What Agreement? What agreement are you now referring too? Or is it more assumption? To quote the OP: "Oakland Oceanic will be leaving the current Pacific Oceanic Partnership and will be under the sole control of the Oakland ARTCC." It specifies "Oakland Oceanic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lundberg Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:53 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:53 AM 1 minute ago, Kirk Christie said: They never lost their airspace, they always had it. https://pacificoceanic.vatsim.net/ Ok fine - But is ZOA out of bounds here for saying they want to manage their own airspace? 2006 was 15 years ago. Time for a change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Melton Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:54 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:54 AM (edited) Ladies and gents, I'm not sure what is going on with everyone being upset that Oakland wants control over their airspace. If you would like to apply to be a visitor it is a very simple process outlined here. https://oakartcc.org/controllers/apply-to-visit. Edited August 29, 2021 at 04:54 AM by Bobby Melton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Teale Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:55 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:55 AM (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dylan Lundberg said: Ok fine - But is ZOA out of bounds here for saying they want to manage their own airspace? 2006 was 15 years ago. Time for a change! and 2005 was 16 years ago, but that has nothing to do with the discussion. If you mean to imply that the partnership has not been reviewed in 15 years, you are sadly mistaken - the current version of the agreement is from 2009, and it has been reviewed a number of times since then. Bobby - in short the concern is that Oakland wants to bar people from controlling after agreeing that those people could control. You are mistaken about it being a simple process, Ive applied for visiting controller status across the US and in over 12 months havent gotten a single confirmation email yet... In any event, if that is the desire for Oakland, its not a complex process for them to go about changing things. They can do so within the bounds of the existing agreement which has been considered acceptable for the last 15 years... Edited August 29, 2021 at 04:58 AM by William Teale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Christie Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:55 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:55 AM (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dylan Lundberg said: Sorry, those are irrelevant to the discussion Iornic statement, coming from one of two people who are semingly vocal in this discussion, that do not show up as controllers for the affected area. Edited August 29, 2021 at 05:00 AM by Kirk Christie Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3 VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Harrison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:56 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:56 AM 1 minute ago, Alexandra Robison said: To quote the OP: "Oakland Oceanic will be leaving the current Pacific Oceanic Partnership and will be under the sole control of the Oakland ARTCC." It specifies "Oakland Oceanic." So now you do know there is an agreement between the two RVPs? I wish you would make up your mind. 🤦♀️ Sean C1/O P3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandra Robison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:57 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:57 AM Just now, Sean Harrison said: So now you do know there is an agreement between the two RVPs? I wish you would make up your mind. 🤦♀️ I quoted the OP. I wish you would read 🤦♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Barber Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:57 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:57 AM 2 minutes ago, Dylan Lundberg said: Ok fine - But is ZOA out of bounds here for saying they want to manage their own airspace? 2006 was 15 years ago. Time for a change! Nobody is saying ZOA can't administer their airspace (in much the same way VATPAC and VATNZ administer theirs. But to say, we are leaving the partnership for no good reason and unless you let us know within 2 months, you can't control here anymore is a bit rich and disrespectful to the other parties of the agreement. Especially when it gets announced publicly before the parties to the agreement are advised. 2 Greg Barber VATPAC3 - Director ATC Training & Standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Harrison Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:58 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:58 AM Maybe we just continue with the agreement until the BOG or both the RVP’s make an announcement! Disregard the OP as it isn’t supported by any basis. Sean C1/O P3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Christie Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:59 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:59 AM 2 minutes ago, Bobby Melton said: I'm not sure what is going on with everyone being upset that Oakland wants control over their airspace Because due process was not followed. They never lost control over their airspace. Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3 VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lundberg Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:59 AM Posted August 29, 2021 at 04:59 AM 2 minutes ago, Kirk Christie said: Iornic statement, comming from one of two people who are semingly vocal in this discussion, that do not show up as controllers for the affected area. Ironic*, Coming*, seemingly* Move the thread somewhere private then, but since its in a public VATSIM forum, I can be here all I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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