When do I switch off of unicom?

[Evan McCartney]

Like when im on Unicom when should I contact a different controller?

[Dustin Rider]

As with practically everything in aviation, it's situation-dependent. I typically follow the guidance of my old ATC days which is to remain on frequency until all potential conflicts have been resolved. If there is traffic in the pattern, I wait until I'm safely away from the pattern; if there's traffic inbound from the direction to which I am about to depart, I'll stick around long enough to make sure we're safely past each other.

[Lauri Uusitalo]

3 hours ago, Evan McCartney said:

Like when im on Unicom when should I contact a different controller?

They will call you...

[Kirk Christie]

1 hour ago, Lauri Uusitalo said:

They will call you...

This is false.

The code of conduct states that it is the pilots responsibility to check and contact ATC. The contact me function is a last resot and controller should only use if the pilot has failed to make contact and has entered the airspace. Too many trigger happy ATCs don't allow for the pilot to initiate the call. 

 

Enroute - check programs to see when you will enter controlled airspace, check controller info to see if any extended coverage and additional frequencies. Call the controller about 5 to 10nm before the sector boundary.

Approach/departure - hard one to judge as Approach airspace is different, you can call them early, I would t expect any Approach airspace to be greater than 50nm. If you call too early they will tell you to contact them at a specific point or DME.

Radar Tower - established on finals and inside 10nm.

Procedural Tower - check airspace diagrams, around 40 - 50nm

Ground - when clear of the runway and past the runway markers.

Edited December 20, 2021 at 11:35 PM by Kirk Christie

[Evan McCartney]

3 hours ago, Kirk Christie said:

This is false.

The code of conduct states that it is the pilots responsibility to check and contact ATC. The contact me function is a last resot and controller should only use if the pilot has failed to make contact and has entered the airspace. Too many trigger happy ATCs don't allow for the pilot to initiate the call. 

 

Enroute - check programs to see when you will enter controlled airspace, check controller info to see if any extended coverage and additional frequencies. Call the controller about 5 to 10nm before the sector boundary.

Approach/departure - hard one to judge as Approach airspace is different, you can call them early, I would t expect any Approach airspace to be greater than 50nm. If you call too early they will tell you to contact them at a specific point or DME.

Radar Tower - established on finals and inside 10nm.

Procedural Tower - check airspace diagrams, around 40 - 50nm

Ground - when clear of the runway and past the runway markers.

What should I use to see controlled airspaces?

[Kirk Christie]

2 hours ago, Evan McCartney said:

What should I use to see controlled airspaces?

https://map.vatsim.net/

Plenty of programs out there. 

[Lauri Uusitalo]

I know Kirk, but they will still call you. 

I do not keep eye on the active ATC sectors all the time. I may check every now and then to see if someone have popped up on the way.

But luckily I have had no problems with Unicom->ATC transitions.

[Kirk Christie]

1 hour ago, Lauri Uusitalo said:

I do not keep eye on the active ATC sectors all the time.

Unfortunatlly you are actually required to.

B3(a) - Pilots shall monitor their flights at all times. It is the responsibility of the pilot to check for, and make timely contact with appropriate air traffic controllers.

[Lauri Uusitalo]

3 minutes ago, Kirk Christie said:

Unfortunatlly you are actually required to.

B3(a) - Pilots shall monitor their flights at all times. It is the responsibility of the pilot to check for, and make timely contact with appropriate air traffic controllers.

Seems so.

[Torben Andersen]

While it sound and resonable for the pilot to make the first call, I'm you know, that in reality it is not that simple, as the exact airspace covered by an atc, is not shown anywhere except in the documents used by the actual vACC, which the pilots seldom has access to. Which airspace is delegated to whom, how different sectors are bounded together etc. is by no means easy for the pilot to know. There is no harm in contacting the controller, when you think you might be in his area - he'll tell you, if he controlls that particullar airspace. Likewise, if you unknowningly enters an airspace controlled by an online atc, hel'll let you know with a friendly "contact me" message. If you do not  monitor your flight, then a perhaps not so friendly "contact me" message might be send to you - and in the end you might be removed by a supervisor, if you are reglecting the calls.

As for the "trigger happy" atc - it can also be a question on workflow. If I see an airplane approaching my area within a few minutes and I can also see that in a few minutes I might be busy giving vectors for approach etc., it is more convinient for me to give an early "call me" rather than wait for the pilot to call me, when I'm busy.

[Juergen Elvers]

I am a Newbie and want to get on my first vatsim flight. I am also not really sure when to switch off/on Unicom correctly.  I have the following question: Say I am at an airport, but there is only the Tower on duty. But the airport is reasonably busy. Do I have to announce via Unicom that I will taxi to HP xyz Rwy xyz and thereafter at the HP xyz switch over to the respective TWR frequency? Would that be the correct process.? Thks for help.

Juergen

 

[Torben Andersen]

If tower is online, you communicate with him and he'll issue taxi instructions/clearences. Other aircrafts in the vicinity of or at the airport should monitor the tower frequency and will thus be able to hear the instructions given to you by the tower and form a mental picture of the traffic at that airport. Unicom should not be used, when atc is online and you're within his area. After takeoff, when released from tower you go to unicom, if no other relevant controller is online.

Remember that the topdown principle within VATSIM means that Tower is also controlling the maneuvre area as well if Ground/Apron is not online.

Edited December 22, 2021 at 04:12 PM by Torben Andersen
clarification of topdown

[Dace Nicmane]

Nope. VATSIM controllers work in a top-down fashion and tower takes over the responsibilities of clearance delivery and ground when those are offline. So you'd ask Tower for IFR clearance, pushback and taxi and finally he'd clear you for takeoff.

[Kirk Christie]

6 hours ago, Torben Andersen said:

him and he'll issue

Them*

They*

Let's try to be a little more inclusive.

Edited December 22, 2021 at 10:14 PM by Kirk Christie

[Andreas Fuchs]

In the context of ATC, Torben's words were meant in a neutral way. We all know that controllers can be male, female, diverse and whatever else one would find appropriate. All meant respectfully. Please don't overly complicate our language.

[Torben Andersen]

oh, need to polish my political correctness a bit more. Thanks for remembering me about that.

[Alistair Thomson]

22 hours ago, Juergen Elvers said:

there is only the Tower on duty

This might help your understanding of the VATSIM topdown system:

https://topdown.dottycomma.com

[John McMurdo]

This is a question I often wonder myself.

I constantly monitor simaware during my flight and have a list of ATC online to the left of my screen,  but whenever I come off unicom to contact what I believe to be the controller for my particular airspace,  often I am  told that I am not in their airspace and to continue on unicom. More often than not,  unless I'm on approach, for example, when its obvious who I need to contact  I will stay on unicom until a controller asks  me to contact them.

Maybe I have not quite understood what airspace is controlled by who,  I know some controllers only cover traffic above or below a certain altitude,  but that is usually stated on simaware, LON_CTR is one I am not sure about,  I always thought that covered all traffic within that particular airspace,  with exception of departures and arrivals, however after several flights across the UK,  some with contact with ATC,  some being told to continue on unicom, I am left a bit confused myself.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 at 11:49 PM by John McMurdo

[Torben Andersen]

@John McMurdoVATSIM UK has an info page for pilots at https://www.vatsim.uk/operations/sectors which I don't know you are aware of. Having said that I've also, but more so some years ago, had issues with the top-down in the UK. I have the impression that VATSIM UK in the early days was very keen in having a sectorization that was equal to real world, so a controller only controlled that RW sector and nothing below. Today  I think topdown is more commonly used in the UK, but I think it is better to have a UK controller clarifying this. And perhaps some more info on where and when you experienced this would help VATSIM UK to give a more precise answer.

Happy holidays

PS: It is allowed for a UK controller to open a secondary sector without a primary sector is open (if I read the info correctly). The secondary positions are often lower airspace, which might be the reason you don't get enr atc(?)

Edited December 26, 2021 at 09:17 AM by Torben Andersen

[John McMurdo]

Thanks @Torben Andersen very helpful, and happy holidays to you too.