It Really Irks me

[Gary Stewart]

It is really annoying to want to fly a flight with ATC control and you guys go offline before I even leave or mid-flight or most of the time there isn't even any coverage. That's why I gladly pay the $ for controllers to be online for set hours every day.... 

[Dace Nicmane]

https://my.vatsim.net/events

[Torben Andersen]

1. Controllers also have families, work and other responcibilies other than sitting waiting for pilots to show up on Vatsim.

2. Last time I controlled after sitting for 3.5 hours I logged off, while pilots were still entering my airspace at 2130z. So do you suggest that a controller just keeps sitting and control, so he'll get irky pilot comments? 

[Andreas Fuchs]

I think it's more about controllers logging on for 20 minutes only and then signing off again. As we all know, it can take 15 to 20 minutes to properly prepare a flight, load the simulator etc.. When you then find ATC signing off, I understand the frustration. Yes, it's the an discussion, the broken record is being played again and again. I understand both sides, but then ATC-teams should not be surprised if pilots choose to fly to/from other places, if their online-presence is completely unpredictable. The counter-example is Boston. It's hard to find a time of day when they are NOT online 😄

[Dace Nicmane]

Well, the OP didn't say anything about logging off after 20 minutes and it looks to me like he's complaining for the sake of complaining. Anyway, a few options exist:

1) Pilot Edge

2) VATSIM events

3) accepting that sometimes unicom is inevitable and learning not to grumble.

[Andreas Fuchs]

7 minutes ago, Dace Nicmane said:

the OP didn't say anything about logging off after 20 minutes

My interpretation originated from "you guys go offline before I even leave", but you may be right as well. We need some more details from @Gary Stewart

I would like to add another option to your list:

4) look for booked ATC stations

[Lauri Uusitalo]

I check how long this ATC dude has been online and do not expect him doing 8 hour shifts. Of course this is for takeoffs, landing is mostly hit and hope.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Yeah, I dunno, the whole thing seems like a veiled ad for another flight sim network.  Of note, though, is that said network has a limited geographical coverage area, and generally the same controller on every frequency.  So there are pros and cons to both services and each sim pilot is free to choose what suits them best.  But coming to one network's forums to throw poo all over their chosen methodology and tout the other's is pretty petty if you ask me.

[Gary Stewart]

wasn't trying to promote other networks or disparage any. I get that people do it on their free time but it's always so hit and miss. I look to see who is online im like great plan a flight and poof done. 

[Ross Carlson]

I think that flying in events is the way to go for you. That's what I do, since I don't like to fly without ATC.

[John McMurdo]

I always keep my options open when I am planning a flight on VATSIM.  I have loads of plans saved so I can pick and choose.  I will either pick an event night, or just look on simaware,  see which areas /airports are covered and how long controllers have been online then decide. As others have said,  it is inevitable that some parts of the flight you may end up using unicom.

[Nick Warren]

Irks me when I log on specifically for an aircraft or multiple aircraft and then they log off or just camp on the ramp for an hour.  Goes both ways man.

[Antonis Panayotatos]

I have no problem with controllers being able to give as much or as little time as possible. If a controller wants to log in and help out for 30 minutes, that's just as appreciated as someone doing an 8-hour shift somewhere.

HOWEVER, I do wish, across the board, that controllers would be better about posting their Estimated Logoff times (and, ideally, estimated log-on times). I just spent 30-40 minutes researching routes, loading up MSFS, filing a plan, and doing all the MCDU/FMS set-up at a major airport that had been online for about 40 minutes. The controller signed off as I was preparing to contact him/her for my clearance. There were only 2 aircraft on the ground, so I absolutely do NOT blame the controller for logging off since it's after midnight local time, but when I checked the frequency on vPilot there was nothing indicated for Estimated Logoff time. This happens during peak afternoon/evening times as well, and it takes the wind out of my sails when I have finish my flight on Unicom.

(As I mentioned, it would also be nice to know planned/booked/estimated log-on times, but I don't know of a resource for this: is there one? It would be great to know "oh, hey, FRA will have a controller 8 hours from now, I can do a long-haul and expect ATC.")

[Andreas Fuchs]

12 hours ago, Antonis Panayotatos said:

(As I mentioned, it would also be nice to know planned/booked/estimated log-on times, but I don't know of a resource for this: is there one? It would be great to know "oh, hey, FRA will have a controller 8 hours from now, I can do a long-haul and expect ATC.")

We do have VATBOOK. Many VACCs take part in it by uploading the booked ATC-times of their controllers. Accessing it is easy, too. VACC websites present this information either on their front page (e.g. VACC Switzerland) or at some other location of their website (e.g. VACC Germany).

If you would like to see booked ATC in a more consolidated way, you can use Qutescoop.

You can download and display global ATC bookings both in tabular and also in graphical form. Don't forget that you'll need this proxy tool (tiny program, easy to install and run), otherwise Qutescoop cannot interpret the current format of VATSIM data.

Should you have any issues with the versions of Qutescoop from Github, try this slightly older version (for Windows), it will definitely work: LINK to my GoogleDrive

 

Alternatively, https://vroute.net/ will also show you all those bookings. In fact, all ATC bookings are hosted on the server of vroute, thanks to its author, Michal Rok.

[Martijn Rammeloo]

What Andreas says :-).

Furthermore, at least at 'my' VACC, controllers are also expected to fulfill their bookings, even if there is no/little traffic.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 at 07:14 PM by Martijn Rammeloo

[Magnus Meese]

Here's a nifty web page showing Vatbook entries: ATC bookings | StatSim

[Andreas Fuchs]

16 minutes ago, Magnus Meese said:

Here's a nifty web page showing Vatbook entries: ATC bookings | StatSim

How cool is that!? I was not aware of this function 🙂

[Antonis Panayotatos]

8 hours ago, Magnus Meese said:

Here's a nifty web page showing Vatbook entries: ATC bookings | StatSim

Thank you, this is super convenient and easy to digest!

10 hours ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

We do have VATBOOK. 

If you would like to see booked ATC in a more consolidated way, you can use Qutescoop.

Alternatively, https://vroute.net/ will also show you all those bookings. 

Thanks for these resources: really good info. I have explored some of the individual VACC sites before, it's nice that there are tools which crawl them and gather the data.

[Antonis Panayotatos]

Decided to do a flight to HEL today, controllers had just logged on when I took off. Not shown as booked anywhere I looked, but there were many arrivals scheduled around my ETA so I assumed they'd stay online for at least a couple of hours. Approach and Tower logged off just as I started my descent on the STAR. There 9 incoming flights within the next 20 minutes, 5 of them just disconnected, I guess disappointed there is no controller. Frustrating.

[Lauri Uusitalo]

58 minutes ago, Antonis Panayotatos said:

Decided to do a flight to HEL today, controllers had just logged on when I took off. Not shown as booked anywhere I looked, but there were many arrivals scheduled around my ETA so I assumed they'd stay online for at least a couple of hours. Approach and Tower logged off just as I started my descent on the STAR. There 9 incoming flights within the next 20 minutes, 5 of them just disconnected, I guess disappointed there is no controller. Frustrating.

Just for the future, I suggest you fly to EFHK on Thursdays as then there is guaranteed coverage from 18 to 21z.

[Dace Nicmane]

1 hour ago, Antonis Panayotatos said:

controllers had just logged on when I took off.

From where did you take off?

[Brett Jenkins]

I do not blame controllers at all, ultimately they're having fun just like us, and have lives. The only thing I wish, to echo something said earlier, is that the estimated logoff time was posted, just so you know, OK this controller is going in 45 mins, if I want to use them I'll have to make a route that departs from there rather than arrives, and there's going to be a controller at X in 1h 30m, so I can fly into there and expect ATC

[Antonis Panayotatos]

2 hours ago, Brett Jenkins said:

I do not blame controllers at all, ultimately they're having fun just like us, and have lives. The only thing I wish, to echo something said earlier, is that the estimated logoff time was posted, just so you know, OK this controller is going in 45 mins, if I want to use them I'll have to make a route that departs from there rather than arrives, and there's going to be a controller at X in 1h 30m, so I can fly into there and expect ATC

I'm on the same page as you. I don't want my comments to be interpreted as a lack of appreciation for the controllers. I just wish there were a way to have a better idea of when controllers will be active and, most importantly for how long.

2 hours ago, Dace Nicmane said:

From where did you take off?

FRA, so a short 2-hour flight. The vast majority of my flights are this short to try and time it so that the controller is online when I arrive. I looked back at my recent flights, and I've only had an arrival controller on 12 out of 31 flights less than 3 hours in length since the start of the new year. All of these flights are during busy local times (i.e. after 1700z for flights in Europe, after 2300z for flights in the USA).

3 hours ago, Lauri Uusitalo said:

Just for the future, I suggest you fly to EFHK on Thursdays as then there is guaranteed coverage from 18 to 21z.

I use the VATSIM calendar frequently for these 'guaranteed coverage' events and I really like it. My location in the USA makes 18z-21z a little tricky since it's during my work day, but I'll keep that in mind next time I want to fly to HEL.

[Kirk Christie]

Similarly, it really irks me when I see pilots flying in and I log into control and they log off....

If I do put an estimated log off time, and log off before that time, are we going to be having the same discussion we are having now.

I dont know when I'm going to log on, or log off. 

I might plan to ATC for 4 hours, and then 2 hours in a mate says to me come to the pub for a beer, I know what one is going to take priority 🍺

Edited February 1, 2022 at 01:45 AM by Kirk Christie

[Antonis Panayotatos]

16 hours ago, Kirk Christie said:

Similarly, it really irks me when I see pilots flying in and I log into control and they log off....

I can imagine that's even more frustrating for you than it is for pilots the other way around. At least without a controller, we can still fly, even if it's less immersive.

16 hours ago, Kirk Christie said:

If I do put an estimated log off time, and log off before that time, are we going to be having the same discussion we are having now.

If there's a log-off time and the controller leaves early, I'd be even more disappointed than I am without seeing a log-off time in the first place. I have no issue with a trip to the pub taking priority over providing ATC, but if you're planned to be logged on, then I might say that you should stick to that commitment if you have a bunch of flights scheduled to arrive or depart (if the airspace is empty, then no harm done). That's what grinds my gear most: it's 1730z, there are 9 flights incoming in the next 30 minutes, and the controller just bails.