Ghost mode?

[Ross Carlson]

Thanks Andreas, for providing something that nearly achieves the actual goal, at least as I understand it to be. Those maps aren't going to be real time, but still better than nothing.

[Andreas Fuchs]

4 minutes ago, Ross Carlson said:

Those maps aren't going to be real time, but still better than nothing.

Correct. The ATC/pilot data displayed in those tools will be downloaded from the VATSIM Datafeed, just like VatSpy, Qutescoop, Simaware etc. do.

[Ross Carlson]

Right ... presently the only way to get real time data is with an actual client connection.

[Tobias Dammers]

38 minutes ago, Ross Carlson said:

Right ... presently the only way to get real time data is with an actual client connection.

True, but you can get all that data just fine using a plain old observer connection. There is absolutely no need for a special connection mode.

[Ross Carlson]

27 minutes ago, Tobias Dammers said:

True, but you can get all that data just fine using a plain old observer connection.

I wasn't saying otherwise ... an observer connection is an actual client connection.

35 minutes ago, Tobias Dammers said:

There is absolutely no need for a special connection mode.

I still think a ghost mode could be useful for other reasons that I described in my first reply here.

[Andreas Fuchs]

42 minutes ago, Tobias Dammers said:

True, but you can get all that data just fine using a plain old observer connection. There is absolutely no need for a special connection mode.

The OP was specifically asking for a way to keep his situational awareness in real time. Solutions have been presented, a "ghost mode" may be one, but it does not seem to be welcome at VATSIM.

[Tim Simpson]

On 6/15/2022 at 1:35 PM, Torben Andersen said:

Why clutter the screen with ghost pilots? If you don't want to participate in the fun - your decision, I'll respect that, but then you don't have any businees on the network - and to be a thad more direct: In my opinion, pilots logging off, when coming to controlled airspace and then logon when on the opposite side, should be banned from the network, as they are defying the purpose of a (social) network.

regards

Such a welcoming attitude.  VATSIM in a nutshell....LOL.

[Alistair Thomson]

4 minutes ago, Tim Simpson said:

VATSIM in a nutshell

VATSIM in a nutshell is about pilots and ATC interacting for the enjoyment and education of both. Members who don't wish to participate in that, who dodge the opportunities for that rather than trying to develop the skills to do that, are not engaging with VATSIM and one wonders why they are members.

[Torben Andersen]

6 hours ago, Tim Simpson said:

Such a welcoming attitude.  VATSIM in a nutshell....LOL.

I'll welcome ANY piplot, who wishes to participate. Those, who don't - why should I welcome them?

[Tim Simpson]

On 6/26/2022 at 2:52 AM, Torben Andersen said:

I'll welcome ANY piplot, who wishes to participate. Those, who don't - why should I welcome them?

If you have to be told why...... LOL.

But clearly you don't know, so I'll tell you.  Just because they don't want to right now, or aren't confident enough to interact with ATC, on the level you demand, maybe if they are welcomed, given time to settle in, and encouraged by a friendly acceptance, they will embrace everything VATSIM has to offer.  But I guess your dismissive attitude is probably the better way to interact with these types of pilots...🙄  Who needs 'em anyways.  Let them go to another network.

[Tim Simpson]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:56 PM, Alistair Thomson said:

VATSIM in a nutshell is about pilots and ATC interacting for the enjoyment and education of both. Members who don't wish to participate in that, who dodge the opportunities for that rather than trying to develop the skills to do that, are not engaging with VATSIM and one wonders why they are members.

Alistair, your comment really shows your narrow view of VATSIM.  You've completely discounted the pilots that enjoy flying VFR, without a flight plan, and never talking to ATC, yet participating in the community on their terms, and getting great enjoyment from it.  VATSIM is what each member makes of it, while operating within the CoC.  I don't think those members should be judged by "wondering why the are members."

[Andreas Fuchs]

7 minutes ago, Tim Simpson said:

If you have to be told why...... LOL.

But clearly you don't know, so I'll tell you.  Just because they don't want to right now, or aren't confident enough to interact with ATC, on the level you demand, maybe if they are welcomed, given time to settle in, and encouraged by a friendly acceptance, they will embrace everything VATSIM has to offer.  But I guess your dismissive attitude is probably the better way to interact with these types of pilots...🙄  Who needs 'em anyways.  Let them go to another network.

Nonsense. For those who would like to do their first steps without interfering with anyone, there's "OBS-mode". As long as someone is not able to follow basic ATC instructions regarding heading, altitude etc., they should not take part yet, but first gather more experience. This is not dismissive, it's just requesting people to follow at least the basic rules of the network.

And: if you ignore and avoid ATC, just because you find it "annoying", then just disconnect. Everything else is just disrespectful. Like some of your posts here.

[Tobias Dammers]

1 hour ago, Tim Simpson said:

You've completely discounted the pilots that enjoy flying VFR, without a flight plan, and never talking to ATC, yet participating in the community on their terms, and getting great enjoyment from it.  VATSIM is what each member makes of it, while operating within the CoC.

But that's not what VATSIM is for. It's not meant to be yet another multiplayer mode for your favorite flightsim; the purpose of VATSIM is interaction between pilots and controllers. If you're avoiding interaction with controllers, then you're not using VATSIM for its intended purpose, and it's perfectly fair that VATSIM refuses to add facilities to support this. VATSIM is not a community-operated free-for-all network, and the people who run it, pay for it, and offer it to the community for free are very much entitled to define the terms of usage and the purpose of the network, so it very much is NOT "what each member makes of it".

[Alistair Thomson]

1 hour ago, Tim Simpson said:

You've completely discounted the pilots that enjoy flying VFR, without a flight plan, and never talking to ATC

Nope, I haven't. Read my post again, where I specified pilots who avoid ATC. That's actually not the same as pilots not needing to engage with ATC and in fact almost ALL of my rw VFR flying was conducted in communication with ATC. There were of course times which I didn't because it was unnecessary. Can you see the difference?

[Tim Simpson]

8 hours ago, Tobias Dammers said:

But that's not what VATSIM is for. It's not meant to be yet another multiplayer mode for your favorite flightsim; the purpose of VATSIM is interaction between pilots and controllers.

What is VATSIM?

VATSIM (short for the Virtual Air Traffic Simulation Network) is a completely free online platform which allows virtual pilots, wherever they are in the world, to connect their flight simulators into one shared virtual world. VATSIM also simulates air traffic control in this virtual world, creating the ultimate as-real-as-it-gets experience for you, the virtual aviation enthusiast.

[Torben Andersen]

16 hours ago, Tim Simpson said:

If you have to be told why...... LOL.

But clearly you don't know, so I'll tell you.  Just because they don't want to right now, or aren't confident enough to interact with ATC, on the level you demand, maybe if they are welcomed, given time to settle in, and encouraged by a friendly acceptance, they will embrace everything VATSIM has to offer.  But I guess your dismissive attitude is probably the better way to interact with these types of pilots...🙄  Who needs 'em anyways.  Let them go to another network.

There are several ways for unexperienced pilots to participate on VATSIM. "Just because they don't want right now" - fine, then fly offline. "aren't confident enough to interact with ATC" - log on as observer and use some time listening to the interaction between pilots and atc, join some of the events for newbies, choose not so populated areas, where controllers have sufficient time to guide them, ... the list goes on - others have been given examples in other post. Please read them.

"Encouraged by a friendly acceptance" - that they don't interact with atc, when they are supposed to? The friendly acceptance on my behalf comes, when they contact me. I don't care, if they make mistakes or have to have the clearences read to them several times. I'll do anything to help them, as I'm been helped, when I started years ago. But just flying away is not acceptable, if interaction with atc is needed. Then I don't welcome them. And I gladly se them go to another network then.

Edited June 28, 2022 at 07:02 AM by Torben Andersen

[Matisse VanWezer]

5 hours ago, Tim Simpson said:

What is VATSIM?

VATSIM (short for the Virtual Air Traffic Simulation Network) is a completely free online platform which allows virtual pilots, wherever they are in the world, to connect their flight simulators into one shared virtual world. VATSIM also simulates air traffic control in this virtual world, creating the ultimate as-real-as-it-gets experience for you, the virtual aviation enthusiast.

That's some top tier cherry picking. It simply depends on where you get your source:
VATSIM is the Virtual Air Traffic Simulation network, connecting people from around the world flying online or acting as virtual Air Traffic Controllers.

Virtual Air Traffic Simulation Network (VATSIM) is an United States 501c3 non-profit corporation that operates an online flight-simulation network noted for its active membership and realism.^[2][3][4][5] Members can fly either as pilots or direct traffic as air traffic controllers, participating in what has been described as a close approximation of real-life aviation procedures.^[6][7][8]

^...A hobbyist organisation for Flight Simulation Enthusiasts to fly a multiplayer online session with air traffic controll provided by enthusiasts...

 

 

 

[Tim Simpson]

8 hours ago, Matisse VanWezer said:

That's some top tier cherry picking. It simply depends on where you get your source:
VATSIM is the Virtual Air Traffic Simulation network, connecting people from around the world flying online or acting as virtual Air Traffic Controllers.

 

 

 

 

Hahahahaha!  Cherry picked right from the VATSIM website, THE source of truth for VATSIM.  😄

Edited June 28, 2022 at 04:00 PM by Tim Simpson

[Matthew Bartels]

Enough. The suggestion was proposed, the discussion was had. The reopening of this discussion served no positive purpose. See you next time.