[22nd October 2022] Cross The Pond Eastbound - Discussion Thread

[Tim Simpson]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, Andreas Fuchs said:

stay well clear of the North Atlantic tracks

I know you have no official capacity in the event, but what do you think is "well clear?"  

Also, that's not what the FAQ for CTP says,.

Edited October 13, 2022 at 08:00 PM by Tim Simpson

[Ronnie Cummins]

22 minutes ago, Antonio Palmieri said:

Hi. 
Please forgive me if it's an obvious miss on my part.  Why cannot I book a slot that shows as available?

After logging in on the CTP site, I could see a text message saying You will be eligible to book a slot at 2022-10-13 19:45:00 z

That time has come and gone, I see the  BOOK  button, but it is not clickable.

 

Based on the time you posted this....the time hadn't past as yet....

[Thimo Koolen]

25 minutes ago, Tim Simpson said:

I know you have no official capacity in the event, but what do you think is "well clear?"  

Also, that's not what the FAQ for CTP says,.

Away from the ocean. Don't cross the ocean if you don't have a slot.

[Andreas Fuchs]

1 hour ago, Tim Simpson said:

I know you have no official capacity in the event, but what do you think is "well clear?"  

Also, that's not what the FAQ for CTP says,.

Ok, let's make it simple as Thimo wrote: do not enter the NAT HLA during the event. It will not be appreciated by the official participants. It's just a few hours per year that this request is made to members.

[Tim Simpson]

This is from the CTP FAQ

"Therefore, we have decided that we need to focus our Oceanic resources to provide the best service possible, so for this event we are asking you to refrain from flying transatlantic if you do not obtain a slot for the event. We cannot enforce this – because as usual, all VATSIM pilots are welcome to fly where they wish, when they wish."
 

That doesn't sound like "don't cross the ocean."  I know you don't want non-slot people, but it looks to me like it's still an option.  Maybe not the preferred option, but still an option.
 

[Tim Simpson]

4 minutes ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

Ok, let's make it simple as Thimo wrote: do not enter the NAT HLA during the event. It will not be appreciated by the official participants. It's just a few hours per year that this request is made to members.

No worries.  CTP, while enjoyed by many, is an endurance test, that I don't find remotely enjoyable.  

[Kieran Hardern]

6 minutes ago, Tim Simpson said:

This is from the CTP FAQ

"Therefore, we have decided that we need to focus our Oceanic resources to provide the best service possible, so for this event we are asking you to refrain from flying transatlantic if you do not obtain a slot for the event. We cannot enforce this – because as usual, all VATSIM pilots are welcome to fly where they wish, when they wish."
 

That doesn't sound like "don't cross the ocean."  I know you don't want non-slot people, but it looks to me like it's still an option.  Maybe not the preferred option, but still an option.
 

OK then. Don't cross the ocean. (please)

[Nick Marinov]

1 hour ago, Tim Simpson said:

This is from the CTP FAQ

"Therefore, we have decided that we need to focus our Oceanic resources to provide the best service possible, so for this event we are asking you to refrain from flying transatlantic if you do not obtain a slot for the event. We cannot enforce this – because as usual, all VATSIM pilots are welcome to fly where they wish, when they wish."
 

That doesn't sound like "don't cross the ocean."  I know you don't want non-slot people, but it looks to me like it's still an option.  Maybe not the preferred option, but still an option.
 

As Kieran has said above me... We can't stop you from crossing the ocean, but dont be the (blank) of the day and try and ruin it for both pilots and controllers alike.

That being said, we can and will enforce flow control on the day, so any non-event traffic can expect lenghty delays in the timeframe of several hours.

[Andrea Tatini]

Hi guys, 

I arrived little be late to book this event, I got this message ..

You will be eligible to book a slot when they are publicly available

when it will be open again ??

Thank you 

[Lauri Uusitalo]

11 hours ago, Tim Simpson said:

This is from the CTP FAQ

"Therefore, we have decided that we need to focus our Oceanic resources to provide the best service possible, so for this event we are asking you to refrain from flying transatlantic if you do not obtain a slot for the event. We cannot enforce this – because as usual, all VATSIM pilots are welcome to fly where they wish, when they wish."
 

That doesn't sound like "don't cross the ocean."  I know you don't want non-slot people, but it looks to me like it's still an option.  Maybe not the preferred option, but still an option.
 

I do not see how you can read this in any other way 

Quote

we are asking you to refrain from flying transatlantic

OTOH, if you are not even going to fly transatlantic then this is a bit moot anyway. 

[Bryan Richards]

Darn, all the slots I was hoping for are gone. Oh well. I see one that I could work with, if it's gone by the time it's my turn to book I guess I'll drop my slot. 

If this event isn't retired, then here is some feedback. Maybe stagger the release of the available slots so that people like me who hasn't yet reached their appointment time to book, has a chance still to book an earlier time or city pair instead of all the earlier slots being taken up by those who has an earlier appointment time/date. 

I dunno though. 

[Thimo Koolen]

That's the whole point of a lottery. It's a bit of luck, since the demand exceeds the supply. The situation is better than it used to be, where it was a "free for all" and the website got overloaded the second slots got released (sometimes even before that).

[Bryan Richards]

Yeah I guess so

[Robert Shearman Jr]

5 hours ago, Bryan Richards said:

Darn, all the slots I was hoping for are gone. Oh well. I see one that I could work with, if it's gone by the time it's my turn to book I guess I'll drop my slot. 

If this event isn't retired, then here is some feedback. Maybe stagger the release of the available slots so that people like me who hasn't yet reached their appointment time to book, has a chance still to book an earlier time or city pair instead of all the earlier slots being taken up by those who has an earlier appointment time/date. 

I dunno though. 

When the number of available slots for an event is approximately one-third of the demand, there is no system which will give everyone what they want.

Slots will be dropped in the days leading up to the event by pilots who decide they aren't able to set the entire day after all.  There will also be a handful of slots which pilots neglect to "re-confirm" by the deadline, because they forget or didn't read the instructions, which there will be a brief re-release of prior to all bookings becoming locked.  So there are still opportunities to grab up something more suitable.

[Sean Harrison]

As I have said several times, why can’t the wider Vatsim community assist with providing a wider area of coverage?  I know that the official “cross the pond” can only cater for 30% of demand, but this is one of the only large events where Vatsim community if happy to not cover for demand.

simply put, why not have the whole Atlantic covered?  Even cover South America to Africa.  Couple of growing regions that would appreciate the exposure and traffic.  Perhaps it’s a problem with our regional based approach!

who is the management authority for Cross the Pond?

 

edit: maybe even a second event the following weekend which excludes any pilot who flew on the first one?

Edited October 14, 2022 at 08:33 PM by Sean Harrison

[Tim Simpson]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:09 PM, Nick Marinov said:

As Kieran has said above me... We can't stop you from crossing the ocean, but dont be the (blank) of the day and try and ruin it for both pilots and controllers alike.

That being said, we can and will enforce flow control on the day, so any non-event traffic can expect lenghty delays in the timeframe of several hours.

Don't be a (blank)?  Nice.

So flow control will be from the departure and arrival airports.  So, non-event aircraft can still cross east or west, from non-event airports,  just not on a NAT, and don't expect ATC.  No need to get so defensive Nick, I'm just curious about the process. 

[Sean Harrison]

Tim, VATSIM (unless things have changed) have never stopped pilots from flying nor discouraged them.  Regardless of event traffic any pilot can still connect and fly.

The issue becomes when their is ATC onboard!  If one of them wants to me a (blank) and put you in a hold for three hours then unless you call a SUP who is considerate, you have to comply with ATC instructions.  So although VATSIM encourages you to fly, some event staff may make life “more” difficult for you due to their priorities.

[Kieran Hardern]

2 minutes ago, Sean Harrison said:

Tim, VATSIM (unless things have changed) have never stopped pilots from flying nor discouraged them.  Regardless of event traffic any pilot can still connect and fly.

The issue becomes when their is ATC onboard!  If one of them wants to me a (blank) and put you in a hold for three hours then unless you call a SUP who is considerate, you have to comply with ATC instructions.  So although VATSIM encourages you to fly, some event staff may make life “more” difficult for you due to their priorities.

VATSIM has, for maybe 3/4 years, discouraged this flying during CTP.  You're quite out of date Sean.

[Sean Harrison]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:09 AM, Nick Marinov said:

As Kieran has said above me... We can't stop you from crossing the ocean, but dont be the (blank) of the day and try and ruin it for both pilots and controllers alike.

That being said, we can and will enforce flow control on the day, so any non-event traffic can expect lenghty delays in the timeframe of several hours.

Nick,  there is a CoC so if any person on the network tried to ruin anything they are in breach.  But how can a pilot who wants to fly and follows instructions be ruining anything?

[Sean Harrison]

1 minute ago, Kieran Hardern said:

VATSIM has, for maybe 3/4 years, discouraged this flying during CTP.  You're quite out of date Sean.

Can you point me to the post from the BoG in regards this quote please?

[Kieran Hardern]

1 minute ago, Sean Harrison said:

Nick,  there is a CoC so if any person on the network tried to ruin anything they are in breach.  But how can a pilot who wants to fly and follows instructions be ruining anything?

Both Nick and I are Team leads in the SUP department. (Those are the 6 people underneath the VP SUP). We both guide SUPs and write plenty of the internal docs.
 

We're really happy to discuss how you can enjoy CTP without impacting the enjoyment of others. Or to discuss how we, politely, are asking you not to fly.

[Kieran Hardern]

13 minutes ago, Sean Harrison said:

Can you point me to the post from the BoG in regards this quote please?

Sure.

In the thread you are currently replying in:

 

Edited October 15, 2022 at 12:21 AM by Kieran Hardern

[Kieran Hardern]

If you want more, I can definitely get someone to post for you.

But sadly, the guidance on discord, social media and announcement posts (which are cleaned up) is as above.

Edited October 15, 2022 at 12:17 AM by Kieran Hardern

[Farbod Tehrani]

I saw today that Slot Trading has been activated on the CTP Website, can someone please direct me to the forum or whatever is used to post trade offerings?

Appreciate the help.

 

Fabz

[Thimo Koolen]

7 hours ago, Farbod Tehrani said:

I saw today that Slot Trading has been activated on the CTP Website, can someone please direct me to the forum or whatever is used to post trade offerings?

Appreciate the help.

 

Fabz

That's all in the CTP Discord server: https://ctp.vatsim.net/discord