Air Traffic Corridor 11/3/07 - Focus Airports?

[David Reimer 913748]

Believe me, the MIA status of certain individuals in VATUSA is well noticed, and is being taken care of.

 

The argument here, is that people complain and do nothing about it. We have a new event that you should support, as well as three Fridays every month to hold an FNO if you please. Do it. I haven't received a single email asking me to staff up my ARTCC for an FNO-style event. Contact the ARTCC and get it rolling. Or sit and complain, but we just won't listen.

 

My title is ATM, does that stop me from doing events? Your title TA, I wouldn't just focus all on training. You know your EC, get an event going. Right?

 

Well, I know alot of people in VATUSA Positions in VATUSA and ARTCC's, And from their viewpoints and viewpoints of my own, It wouldnt really help. To get the traffic required and ATC, Not including those who recive the amount of traffic already (LAX for ATC/Traffic, JFK gets traffic) it would require a significant amount of advertizing, which would be almost impossible, unless alot of pilots formed a so called "Pilot Union" to help and do these events, sort of overrule VATUSA and just set up our own event, which I admit, as I type this, Im rather interested. I do agree with you about the helping thing through.

 

I should step up and attempt to help out, From prior experence, this topic may get locked, If it does, I will continue this via PM with you. I like the idea alot.

[Alex Bailey 969331]

Aaron,

Sorry if you are misunderstanding my comments. My leadership capabilities and strategies don't stop at the extent of my title. I like to encourage others to step up to the plate, whether it is designing events or stating their opinions. My goal, especially in Miami, is to be a fellow controller and friend, and an instructor. Not some administrative genius who enjoys rubbing it in someone's face.

 

We are a network that should be working together, which means supporting what we are currently doing and trying to improve. However, the most profound improvements come from the ARTCC level. I can't stress it enough... The ARTCCs have always complained that we don't have the power, but now the power is being given to us and we are not cashing in on the opportunity. We have three Fridays to do as we please, whether it be FNO or something else. I'll tell you this, I have more inquiries about VFR-style events in Florida rather than FNO. My advice is to get in touch with your events coordinator and get an FNO plan in the works. As a Training Administrator, I don't believe your duties only extend to training. I think you have the ability to communicate to your staff about the opinions of the pilots. If we all do our part, we will succeed. I just don't see the need to complain in the open media when we can all do our part in a productive manner, by contacting the Events Coordinators (that is their job!), and getting the events going that the pilots want.

 

VATUSA, in my opinion, is supposed to sit in the background and keep the division running, while the ARTCCs do most of the gr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]roots work. You can't expect VATUSA to do all the work for you. Plan the event, and get them to advertise and promote it. Don't expect everyone to do work for you, right? Does VATUSA train your students for you? No they don't. Why should VATUSA plan all your events too?

 

Catch my drift? This is only to improve the network...

Edited November 5, 2007 at 10:31 PM by Guest

[Brian Sperduto 856560]

If a poll were taken, The majority of the pilots would most likley vote for the old FNO.

 

This is just personal opinion, or are there some facts to back this up?

 

http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=22621

 

That topic was posted prior to the first event ever happening.

 

Look this event has been going on for only a few months, it may very well be changed in the future but with only three of them under our belts its alittle premature to be demanding change. Another idea, if you fly for a VA go talk to them see if they want to do something on Fridays you aren't limited to just what VATUSA has to offer. There are a number of other Divisions on the network that I guarantee would love more traffic for their events on Friday. The FNO was started by VAs I don't think any of us would be sad if some VAs got together and started up something different.

 

VATSIM isn't just VATUSA if you don't like our selection for events one night I highly suggest trying another Division. A number of them provide the same quality if not better quality ATC than we do, if I were you I would give it a shot I know I liked it what I saw when I first ventured out.

 

I'm not saying change isn't out of the question because it very well is an option being considered. Are we going to revert back to the FNO exactly as it was, chances are no. May something very similar come if these are what everyone's opinion is; I wouldn't bet against it.

[Brad Littlejohn]

I dont have to plan my own FNO 1) It's not MY job and 2)It's VATUSA's job to help ARTCC's and if they don't want to do that, apparently there's a bigger problem to be looked at Alex.

 

Then what is your job, Aaron? I ask this, because I do not know if you are part of your local sector's FAB, or have a position in that sector. If you are, then your job would be to help out your sector, as everyone else's job is if they are a member of their sector's FAB or have a position.

 

As for it being VATUSA's job, it's up to VATUSA to help the ARTCCs when the ARTCCs help themselves. In short, why depend on a hand out when sectors have the ability to do the effort themselves?

 

Do you think Jeff Clark whined and complained to VATUSA to help ZLA out when he put together California Screamin'? Did the guys at ZBW whine and complain to VATUSA to help them out when they organized the Boston Tea Party? ZAU with Chicago Madness? I'll give you that answer.

 

No.

 

Those sectors put together those events on their own, and the only thing VATUSA helped them out with was arranging the date for those to be held and put on the calendar. The Facility chiefs (ATMs, DATMs), and Events Coordinators did all the work for those.

 

If there is a bigger problem, it would be the lack of effort to do things at the local level, or lobbying by pilots/whomever at the local ARTCC level, than at the VATUSA level. So as I have said all along, the power is in YOUR hands, not VATUSA's.

 

You don't need VATUSA to host an event. Tell your sector's EC to get active and plan stuff. There is more than one Friday in a month, you know...

 

BL.

[Michael Smith]

whats this new event on Dec 7th? are we changing Friday night events again?

 

i would like to see FNO come back

[Alex Bailey 969331]

The Dec 7th event is the corridor. The "New Event" title was placed there before the event was announced, to my understanding atleast.

[Michael Smith]

The Dec 7th event is the corridor. The "New Event" title was placed there before the event was announced, to my understanding atleast.

 

rgr that

[Scott Johnston 890281]

Hey guess what, ZME's having an event on Friday. (Not really) Now guess what will happen, nothing.

 

You can't compare FNO in ZME, ZMP, etc., to The Boston Tea Party in ZBW. Apples to oranges.

[Ryan Whitford 995253]

I dont know how to use the quote feature mr. bailey but I love your "just do as told" attitude. "We have a new event that you should support."

 

Let's just tuck our tails in and not stand up for what the network wants......Good to have you leading miami.

 

so true

 

i love to see FNO back ARTCC's arnt picking up the slack no offence. i love having FNO every friday and big events or less on saturdays/sundays!!!!!

[Tom Rakauskas 986124]

Seriously, take a poll. I could bet you that at leat 90% of the network would agree to FNO. Good Administratros will do what is right, the majority. Hey.. theres always IVAO!!

[Earvie Rollins 971247]

Let's just tuck our tails in and not stand up for what the network wants......Good to have you leading miami.

 

so true

 

i love to see FNO back ARTCC's arnt picking up the slack no offence. i love having FNO every friday and big events or less on saturdays/sundays!!!!!

 

 

Ryan is extacly right. We should FNO back. Alex you are an ATM so you should know how it feels when your ARTCC dosen't reccevie all that traffic on certain fridays.

 

and FYI... I never receive an Email.

 

Thanks!!

Edited November 6, 2007 at 01:32 AM by Guest

[Ryan Whitford 995253]

FYI... i never got the email saying FNO is killed by a person who doesnt fly or control on the Network

[Ian Elchitz 810151]

Just wanted to mention here that I like to believe the people at VATUSA are doing the best they can to meet the best interests of the VATUSA population. I can't think of any hidden agendas here that would be satisfied by this new event - I just think they thought it might be a change for the better - not the worse.

 

With that said - if the pilots and ARTCCs really don't like the new format, then I'm sure a change can be made after a certain period of time has p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed to see how well accepted it is. if it needs to be changed - then it needs to be changed.

 

I'm all for VATUSA and VATSIM in general trying new ideas - some of them work and some of them don't - but we've got to continue to attempt to raise the bar here. At the same time, I personally feel that the role of the VATUSA events department should be to maintain the schedule of events so that we don't all try them at the same time, and to act as a support resource for facilities that need help in planning, marketing, and staffing events. However in no way should they make major policy decisions on WHAT the events are, HOW you must run them, or WHEN you can and can't run them (unless a conflict exists).

 

That was the original intention of the events department. A resource library to help facilities out that need it. If it in any way turns into a centralized power thing (I'm not saying it is) then that needs to be changed.

 

Regarding people being AWOL, I can't comment since I really don't keep on that sort of stuff these days. Sometimes people get busy and can't spend as much time on the network as they would like to due to real world events. However - if this happens, people need to have delegates in place with the ability to keep things moving - or they need to be relieved of their positions. It's as simple as that. If people can't do their job - be it as a mentor, instructor, TA, ATM, DATM, or other positions - then they need to get out or get booted out so that someone else can take care of business.

 

Perhaps the events department needs to take a look at going back to FNO - I can't really say for sure - but with all the complaining, one would think they would be looking into it. who knows what happens behind closed doors?

[Justin A. Martin]

Guys,

 

Think of it this way: I know you guys love FNO, but now we have the opportunity to have 3 FNOs a month PLUS one HUGE event! If you don't like that, that's cool and you are entitled to your opinion, but instead of staying here and complaining on forums, email the ARTCCs! If we receive, at ZMA, a request for an FNO style event, we would do it, as would the majority of the ARTCCs.

 

Now, if you hate this, which many do, that's okay, but at least try to do something about it. And posting your feelings on the forums will not do much. Email the ARTCCs and plan those events! And anybody, regardless whether you have 1000 hrs as an ATC or have 20 hrs as a pilot, can and should help to make these events. I know it sounds easier than it is, but it is no where near impossible.

 

I look forward to hearing of some huge events that you came up with!

 

Take care,

Justin

[Alex Bailey 969331]

Keep in mind we never lost FNO. It can still happen 3 times a month.

[Ryan Whitford 995253]

No FNO to my understanding is that ONE airport gets all the traffic. Not spread out to 3 ARTCC's. no offense but if you want all the pilots to send in request then the ARTCC's will most likely not accept them. This new style is ridiculous. FNO is the best and only the best....

 

O and to the other People that repied to the fourm saying "Dont worry its only the 3rd one it will get better" This is becasue we have no other choice, I WILL CONTINUE to express my opinion in the forums, hoping that if Karen really loves this new ATC thinggy then she will read it and reply back

Edited November 6, 2007 at 02:15 AM by Guest

[Earvie Rollins 971247]

Alex you say it can happend, you are right!!!! However it will be unplanned and mabey a tower and gnd come on. I remember when our ARTCC hosted FNO we would get perpared for it 2 months ahead, everybody would be excited. This really applies to people who fly on the network alot.

Edited November 6, 2007 at 02:17 AM by Guest

[Alex Bailey 969331]

I'll say it again and this is the last time. FNO is not gone. Understand?

 

Good luck getting Karen to read the forums, she has been gone for well over a month. However, I read the forums and so do many of the event coordinators, who are the people you need to contact. Otherwise you won't achieve the results you desire.

[Earvie Rollins 971247]

I am going to say it again and for the last time FNO is gone Alex do you understand. Without FNO theirs no more fun nights on friday!!

[Ryan Whitford 995253]

Alex i know you hate being treated badly in the forums but what you are saying is incorrect

[Alex Bailey 969331]

Earvie, Earvie, Earvie.... Contact an EC and they will give you an FNO. Email me right now with an open date and I'll see what I can do. FNO was always planned by the ARTCCs, so this will be no different.

[Earvie Rollins 971247]

Alex, Alex, Alex...... Contact me when FNO is really back and when we are not having no bootleg FNO thanks.

[Tom Rakauskas 986124]

FNO!! FNO!! FNO!! FNO!!

[Earvie Rollins 971247]

Bring FNO back please.

Edited November 6, 2007 at 02:25 AM by Guest

[Ryan Whitford 995253]

Please bring FNO back Karen