Panel on side of comp

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

Question,

 

Is it ok to leave the side panel off on the comp without frying it? My frames had steadilly dropped of the last month. I decided to run a test to see what was up. I took the side panel off and put a house fan on the side and let it run. I hopped in FS and in the PMDG 737 and was getting frames from 30-90. It was crazy. Would it be ok to leave the side off? Im really worried about it, and I really dont want to spend over $100 to add a cooling system. BTW, since I did this test, I added a new fan, it doesnt help much.

[Bruno Lindenblatt]

I wouldn't see why not, as long as you don't have objects around that can damage the hardware. Otherwise I think so. But let a real tech answer your question.

[Anthony ImBoden]

I run with the side of my case off all the time. So far, I've had no adverse results, asides a bit extra dust inside.

[Thomas Parker]

That can depend on several things such as: how well your CPU, GPU coolers work, how warm the room is, how much moving air is needed to cool said devices, etc.

 

The best way to find out if it's okay is to get temperature readings of the CPU and GPU. It's possible that your motherboard manufacturer has a utility that will display temperature readings pulled from the motherboard sensors. Same with the GPU. (I've got an ASUS Mobo and an NVidia Graphics cards. Both offer these utilities.)

 

Hope this helps,

Tom

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

Well as of right now, my GPU temp is 38 deg. It goes up to about 43-45 during running FS for over an hour. I tried it again last night with the side panel off, and I was getting almost 40FPS with the Aeroworx Kingair. Im probably just going to leave it off when Im flying and leaving it on all other times.

[Elliot Lezam 895373]

Every case is designed specifically for performance. The reason mfr's put a side on it is because it sort of restricts the direction of airflow. For example, if your fan is blowing air into the case and theres a side on it, the air wont escape, it will just bounce back onto the hardware. In my case for example, I have fans in the front blowing in cool air, and blowing the air out in the back. If I didnt have my side, the air would just flow out.

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

Every case is designed specifically for performance. The reason mfr's put a side on it is because it sort of restricts the direction of airflow. For example, if your fan is blowing air into the case and theres a side on it, the air wont escape, it will just bounce back onto the hardware. In my case for example, I have fans in the front blowing in cool air, and blowing the air out in the back. If I didnt have my side, the air would just flow out.

 

Not really. The main reason for a side panel is to protect the insides from damage (and the user from damage) and to reduce RF interference (mainly from computer to elsewhere). Manufacturers don't put a great deal of thought into airflow, nor is a lot of thought usually necessary. One or more fans move air through the case, and that's normally sufficient.

 

I have the sides off the PCs I use, and it hardly affects airflow at all. The airflow in the desktop, for example, is front to back, and it stays that way with the side off. The temps don't change much, either. At rest, the CPU is at around 45° C and the GPU at around 48° (with ambient temps around 33° inside the case, 23° in the room). Running MSFS raises the CPU to 50-52° and the GPU to 58° if AA is off, or 61° if it is on (the GPU limit is 128° C).

 

If you use a fan to blow air into the case from the side, that can change temps. Make sure you orient it so that it works with the existing fans, and not against them.

[Michael Gold]

My old computer ran with the side off for years. In the end, some of the hardware started acting kind of funny, but I blame that on the age, not the missing side. I say go for it.

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

It works great with the side off. Now im trying to figure out why FS keeps freezing. It gives me the weird buzzing noise and just freezes. Nothing else. I have to restart the computer. Ive done 4 memory tests, and they past everytime. Im lost on this one.

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

It works great with the side off. Now im trying to figure out why FS keeps freezing. It gives me the weird buzzing noise and just freezes. Nothing else. I have to restart the computer. Ive done 4 memory tests, and they past everytime. Im lost on this one.

 

A buzzing noise in the form of audio, or a noise actually made by the hardware in the case?

 

What add-ons do you have installed with FS?

[Bill Casey]

Every case is designed specifically for performance. The reason mfr's put a side on it is because it sort of restricts the direction of airflow. For example, if your fan is blowing air into the case and theres a side on it, the air wont escape, it will just bounce back onto the hardware. In my case for example, I have fans in the front blowing in cool air, and blowing the air out in the back. If I didnt have my side, the air would just flow out.

 

Not really. The main reason for a side panel is to protect the insides from damage (and the user from damage) and to reduce RF interference (mainly from computer to elsewhere). Manufacturers don't put a great deal of thought into airflow, nor is a lot of thought usually necessary. One or more fans move air through the case, and that's normally sufficient.

 

I'm afraid that Elliot is actually correct, Anthony. Cases are designed with airflow in mind and to ensure that the flow of air goes in the right direction and at sufficient speed. That is why inflow fans are at the bottom and exhaust fans at the top (sometimes with additional fans at the CPU point). The case sides perform both functions - protection and to ensure that the airflow goes the right way through the case. With the sides on the airflow is constrained and therefore faster provided your exhaust is at least as efficient as your inflow. Taking a case side off interupts that flow of air AND subjects the internals to an uninterrupted flow of any airborne dust that can be found. Dust is without doubt a major killer of PCs!

 

Common mistakes from people whose PCs are too warm include clogged air filters on the inbound fans (these should be checked every month at least especially in a carpetted room) plus people who wedge their box under a desk up against a wall where the exhausted air has nowhere to go, if it can't get out then it stays in there getting hotter. The cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ic error is of course skimping on the heatsinks which are perhaps the most crucial component in a PC! Modern vid cards tend to have their own cooler fans as well, sometimes with an exhaust through one of the spare slots, it's vital that these also do not get blocked by dust nor obstructed by a m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] of cabling (very common that one, especially again where the case is wedged under a desk).

 

Finally Ryan, if your GPU was peaking at 45C then that is absolutely fine, but what is your CPU running at tempwise? Just make sure that the CPU fan itself is running! I had one fail on me once and my PC went horrendously unstable before I discovered a dead £5 cpu fan!

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

I'm afraid that Elliot is actually correct, Anthony. Cases are designed with airflow in mind and to ensure that the flow of air goes in the right direction and at sufficient speed.

 

The vast majority of cases are designed and built with virtually no thought to airflow at all. I have several burnt out PCs that prove it. For most manufacturers, other considerations are more important, such as footprint, weight, manufacturing and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]embly costs, the cost of parts such as fans, and so on. A great many off-the-shelf PCs run hot, in part because airflow was not a consideration, and in part because they just don't have enough room or fans for proper cooling.

 

There are a few manufacturers who care (less than before). I have some old HP hardware that was very clearly designed with airflow in mind, right down to internal ductwork. But that's the exception, not the rule.

 

The case sides perform both functions - protection and to ensure that the airflow goes the right way through the case. With the sides on the airflow is constrained and therefore faster provided your exhaust is at least as efficient as your inflow. Taking a case side off interupts that flow of air AND subjects the internals to an uninterrupted flow of any airborne dust that can be found. Dust is without doubt a major killer of PCs!

 

I've detected no difference in airflow (or temperatures) with the case on or off, nor would I expect any. If you remove both sides, that might make a difference (but not much), but removing one side really doesn't change anything in a typical case. Rather like freezer cases in supermarkets that are completely open in front without changing the airflow.

 

Common mistakes from people whose PCs are too warm include clogged air filters on the inbound fans (these should be checked every month at least especially in a carpetted room) ...

 

Filters? How many PCs come with filters these days?

 

Most overheating occurs because of fan failure. Off-the-shelf PCs often have incredibly cheap fans.

[Bill Casey]

Despite having been building PCs since 1989 I have clearly learned nothing about case design, causes of overheating and the typical capabilities of the vast majority of PC components on the market today. Thanks for your help Anthony, I now realise the error of my ways and bow to your infinitely superior knowledge in this field. I shall open the front of my freezer forthwith forearmed with the knowledge that the contents will not be affected. I am indebted.

[Elliot Lezam 895373]

Imagine blowing into a straw as hard as you can. Now cut little slits mid section, will you get the same pressure at the end? Same thing with a case, its supposed to tunnel the air...

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

I have tons of addons installed, enough I cant count on 10 hands. Its a noise from the Sim. Sometimes FS comes back and works, sometimes it just keeps buzzing and finally dies. It dont matter which plane Im using. I have found it to happen more with higher loads of traffic, but does it with little traffic too.

When my comp first starts the GPU core is running at 35 degress. And the CPU is around 36 or so. After an hour or so of FS and the computer just running, the GPU rises to around 41-42 and the CPU to 40.

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

The temperature sounds fine. It sounds like one or more of those zillion add-ons is causing a problem. Even reputable payware add-ons can sometimes behave strangely. Try to isolate the add-ons which are in use in each of the flights that causes a failure, that might help. Add-ons include scenery, not just panel instruments or aircraft or things like that.

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

The temperature sounds fine. It sounds like one or more of those zillion add-ons is causing a problem. Even reputable payware add-ons can sometimes behave strangely. Try to isolate the add-ons which are in use in each of the flights that causes a failure, that might help. Add-ons include scenery, not just panel instruments or aircraft or things like that.

Frames go to hatties with the Wilco Airbus, so Im guessing its that one

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

Frames go to hatties with the Wilco Airbus, so Im guessing its that one

 

If that seems to be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with the failures, the next step is to deinstall that specific add-on and see if the problem goes away.

[Bill Casey]

It's the 'buzzing' then freezing that's got me thinking especially since you say that it doesn't matter which aircraft you are using. The Wilco Bus isn't likely to cause it if you're not actually flying it. We certainly ruled out temperature as the reason so we need to look elsewhere. A couple of things to check:

 

The next time it happens, scribble down the time that the event occurs then go to Event Viewer and see what is recorded in there. Control Panel/Administrative Tools/Event Viewer and check for errors both under Applications and System. Dble-click each one and check for names of faulting modules. That may give more of a clue if we're lucky, it doesn't always since sometimes it'll just report that FS has failed with no further clues. Worth a try though.

 

The other thing I thought of was a potential DirectX problem which can cause all sorts of nasty events including ones maniefesting themselves via a sound of some description. Go to Start/Run and enter "DXDIAG" without the quotes and run it. Check through each of the tabs along the top and see if it reports any errors anywhere.

 

The 'buzzing' also suggests it may be worthwhile checking out your sound drivers which can cause varied problems not all of which can be heard! Just make sure you have the latest set for your sound device. While you're at it check out your video drivers as well.

[Paul Hobin 939926]

Wow, this question sure raised the excitement level around here! Often I notice debates get loud and long because EVERYONE's right...to a point. Yes, a well designed system should be run with the case intact because it's part of the cooling design. But how many systems are "well designed" in this respect? Certainly not all of them. My Dell runs fine. My PC that a friend built from parts kept overheating and shutting down. Well, that's not a big surprise given that the cooling "design work" was nil! I took the sides off the case, put a fan on it and it's been happy like that for three years.

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

well, I know for sure its not FS9 doing it. I installed the COD 4 Demo today. Loaded it up fine, and started the level. I got 10 seconds in and the buzzing came, froze, and the computer restarted. That was with the side panel on. Not sure whats up. I started up the demo again, and ran for around 30 seconds with not a problem. FPS are great with the game, and it looks great. Just wondering if I have a hardware problem now.

[Scott Johnston 890281]

I don't know jack about computers, but could it possibly be your PSU not pumping enough juice?

[Ryan Guffey 956726]

better be, its a 480 watt power supply

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

better be, its a 480 watt power supply

 

Add up the requirements of all the hardware in the box and make sure. If it fails under load, and it's not overheating, the PSU becomes a possible candidate. Video cards pull a lot more power when they are operating in fancy 3D modes.

[Wycliffe Barrett]

Ok

 

here I come. I have read this thread all the way through and at times I have been weak with laughter.

 

Regarding the buzzing though this sounds like hardware failure to me.

 

FS9 has been ruled out, addons have gone west and tempreture has been flogged to death.

 

I'm erring on the side of failing motherboard or more than likely failing ram.

 

I would without doubt though try and get a new PSU (powersupply unit) first and get a 650 watt just to be safe. I got one for £17 and it works a charm.

 

Ok guys go back to the fun stuff.

 

Oh and just to be clear I'm on the side of well designed cases moving air in a specific direction theory. That said I once had a PC case getting really hot, took me ages to figure out what the problem was.

 

Didn't help that i had my cable modem sat on top of the case generating about 100c and warming the top of my case up like a hot plate.

 

The best solution I have come across is an aluminium case by Thermaltake.

 

my two pence worth

 

Wycliffe