Update to VATUSA Policy 07/05 - Senior Controller (C3)

[Gary Millsaps 830104]

NOTICE: The VATUSA Global Rating Policy, #07/05 has been updated to reflect the implementation of the new Senior Controller (C3) rating requirements and procedures. This policy addendum is effective immediately.

 

The Senior Controller (C3) rating shall be utilized to recognize members who show strong dedication to perfecting their craft and make significant contributions to the VATUSA Division through active online participation. Members MUST qualify for this upgrade – the general requirements are listed below. Qualifying members may make application for an upgrade to Senior Controller (C3) rating by going to the VATUSA Homepage (www.vatusa.net) and using the link in the menu at left titled “C3 Applicationâ€

Edited May 4, 2008 at 01:57 PM by Guest

[John Cierpial 1008209]

Question:

 

Providing online services as an Instructor (INS) or mentor (MTR)

 

NOTE: Hours recorded as an Observer (OBS), will NOT be considered.

 

When I am online mentoring (listening to controllers, talking to them via text/Teamspeak), I am logged on as NY_JC_MEN. Since I sign on as an observer, that does NOT count towards 200 hours, even though I'm mentoring? If so, what is considered

Providing online services as an Instructor (INS) or mentor (MTR)?

 

-Joe

[Gary Millsaps 830104]

Hi Joe,

 

In order for the hours to count, you will have to alter your logon process and use a "Facility" selection other than Observer.

 

I've edited the post above adding this information for clarity.

Edited May 4, 2008 at 02:23 PM by Guest

[Alex Bailey 969331]

Question:

 

Providing online services as an Instructor (INS) or mentor (MTR)

 

NOTE: Hours recorded as an Observer (OBS), will NOT be considered.

 

When I am online mentoring (listening to controllers, talking to them via text/Teamspeak), I am logged on as NY_JC_MEN. Since I sign on as an observer, that does NOT count towards 200 hours, even though I'm mentoring? If so, what is considered

Providing online services as an Instructor (INS) or mentor (MTR)?

 

-Joe

 

Actively instructing a position. For me it might be instructing Miami Center so I am online with the facility "center" and the callsign, "MIA_I_CTR"

[John Cierpial 1008209]

Oh well I think people using the _MEN or _INS callsign should count towards the 200 hours since during that time logged in as an observer, I am actively mentoring which according to the criteria above should count towards the 200 hours. This may come up with others as well since many times they will be signed on as XX_XX_MEN or XX_XX_INS and using that callsign to teach

[Gary Millsaps 830104]

Hi Joe,

 

It's not the logon callsign that makes a difference...it's the FACILITY you select in the drop-down box on the VATSIM Connect screen used in VRC/ASRC that matters. It has Observer, Flight Service Station, Clearance/Delivery, etc... In order for the hours to count, you MUST use any selection OTHER THAN Observer...it's that simple.

[John Cierpial 1008209]

OK, so could I sign on as NY_JC_MEN as an FSS? Or would I have to log in as an observer as usual? Not trying to cause problems, just want to clarify so everyone knows how it works since this is a new thing and I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering

[Tom Seeley]

3) FSS Callsign Suffix

 

A. Use of the _FSS suffix for other than Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) air traffic control services is not permitted within VATUSA airspace.

 

B. FSS activities, which include weather and other advisories, serve no useful purpose in this environment and contribute to lag on the network.

 

C. IFR control positions requiring exceptional geographic radio coverage such as oceanic control or other large areas may use the _FSS suffix as a callsign. This should be done only when necessary to permit sufficient radio coverage for IFR operations.

 

D. The only permitted FSS callsigns in VATUSA are:

 

· ZAK_(INIT)_FSS

 

· ZNY_(INIT)_FSS

 

· ZHU_(INIT)_FSS

 

· ZMA_(INIT)_FSS

Obviously you cannot log on as FSS unless you're providing that service. If your intent is to ensure that your mentor/instructor hours count toward your C3 award, log in as JFK_M_APP, LGA_I_TWR or whatever ZNY prescribes for mentoring/instructing, and select APP or TWR (for example) rather than OBS.

[Harold Rutila 974112]

OK, so could I sign on as NY_JC_MEN as an FSS?

Joe,

 

Are you talking about when you are mentoring or instructing someone currently controlling the FSS? For example, NY_JC_MEN (signed on as an FSS) would be monitoring ZNY_HR_FSS. I could be wrong. Just clarify, please.

 

I, too, had a question on this policy. I currently hold an I1, however I have never held a C3. I visit in Cleveland (ZOB), and when I controlled there I always used to select C3 as my rating, the next step down, since visitors are not permitted to control with an I1 in Cleveland. Now, because of this policy, do I have to apply for a C3 to sign on as a C3 in Cleveland? It's obviously not a hard thing to do; I just want to make sure I wouldn't be sending a needless C3 application. Thanks!

 

EDITED QUOTE TAGS

[Harold Rutila 974112]

Could anyone please shed some light on my question?

[David Baker 1004102]

Harold, my understanding of the policy, is that it would be incorrect to log in anywhere as a C3 as you have never held that position.

If you meet the rest of the criteria, I can't imagine why you wouldn't submit an app for a C3 rating.

 

The above may be totally incorrect.

[Gary Millsaps 830104]

Hi Harold,

 

David is correct in his explanation. The VATSIM system is designed such that you can logon with any Rating value at or below your current [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned rating.

 

While it may technically allow this, it would be inappropriate for you to use the C3 rating in this case. If you are not using your I1 rating then the appropriate rating to use in your case, is C1, as (you mentioned) you have never held the C3 rating.

 

As for the Facility chosen when logging on, I cannot imagine why one would not choose the facility they are instructing or mentoring on when they logon as an Instructor or Mentor. It guarantees the hours will be included in the total service hours required by the C3 upgrade process and keeps confusion down for students and other controllers around you.

 

Thus, if instructing or mentoring on Approach, an example might be: ZDV_I_APP or ZDV_MS_INS (either one is fine from VATUSA's standpoint) - the key is the Facility I select when logging in - in this case, it would be Approach.

Edited May 6, 2008 at 11:19 PM by Guest

[Justin A. Martin]

Thanks for clarifying, Gary...

 

And to add, Harold, you can log on as an I1 where you visit too. Any rating that you hold on VATSIM you are permitted to use. For example, if you wanted to control DTW_APP you can login with the I1 rating.

 

Take care,

JM

[Benton Wilmes]

Thanks for clarifying, Gary...

 

And to add, Harold, you can log on as an I1 where you visit too. Any rating that you hold on VATSIM you are permitted to use. For example, if you wanted to control DTW_APP you can login with the I1 rating.

 

Take care,

JM

 

Sorry Justin but unless this policy has been changed in the past year this is not true (and from reading Gary's post right above yours, I know it hasn't changed). At least it used to be that if you were an I1 and you wanted to visit, you could NOT sign in as an I1 when you were visiting. You had to login as a C3 (used to be that all I1's had to be a C3 first) instead. The reasoning I was told was because when you are signed in as an Instructor, others could go to you for help at that facility. The problem is is that you are not actually an instructor there (or on the training staff at all) and most likely don't have the same knowledge of that particular facility as other members of the training staff.

 

As for the Facility chosen when logging on, I cannot imagine why one would not choose the facility they are instructing or mentoring on when thay logon as an Instructor or Mentor. It guarantees the hours will be included in the total service hours required by the C3 upgrade process and keeps confusion down for students and other controllers around you.

 

Thus, if instructing or mentoring on Approach, an example might be: ZDV_I_APP or ZDV_MS_INS (either one is fine from VATUSA's standpoint) - the key is the Facility I select when logging in - in this case, it would be Approach.

 

Gary, what Joe is talking about is that in NY, mentors and instructors log on when OBSERVING with _MEN/INS at the end of their callsign. So in Joe's case instead of logging in as NY_JC_OBS as he normally would, he signs on as NY_JC_MEN since he is a mentor. I think the biggest reason for this is so they are more easily identified so people can find them quicker for help if need be. Now even though he is observing, he is still helping people out, not just on one position necessarily. In just 15 min of being online, he might have helped a guy on EWR_TWR, EWR_GND, MMU_TWR,NY_ARD_APP, etc.... Also, I know that as they (meaning MEN/INS) are logged in they "monitor" some people to check their progress and other things and answer any questions they may have.

 

Hope that all made sense.

[John Cierpial 1008209]

Benton, thank you for clarifying what I meant. I tend to have trouble putting stuff into words That's why I was hoping my hours could count towards my C3 since I was actually mentoring during that time logged in as an observer. I couldn't login as EWR_M_TWR because I would've had to login as EWR_M_TWR, MMU_M_TWR etc.

[Justin A. Martin]

Benton,

 

I actually talked with a VATUSA SUP/VATSIM staff member recently who told me that I can sign in as an I-1 regardless of region. Is this not true, Gary? I know it was 3 weeks ago when I asked (or at least according to the SUP/staff member). Sorry if I am not understanding this completely.

 

Take care,

Justin

[Alex Bailey 969331]

Benton,

 

I actually talked with a VATUSA SUP/VATSIM staff member recently who told me that I can sign in as an I-1 regardless of region. Is this not true, Gary? I know it was 3 weeks ago when I asked (or at least according to the SUP/staff member). Sorry if I am not understanding this completely.

 

Take care,

Justin

 

Depends on the ARTCC. Some allow you to use your I-1, some don't.

[Justin A. Martin]

Right, but according to this SUP it doesn't matter what region, what ARTCC, what FIR, etc...if you have a certain VATSIM rating you can use it when ever you control...sorry again if I'm confused.

[Justin A. Martin]

Okay, so to clarify...you can log in as an I1 in the RATING section but you can not sign in as _I_ or _INS for another ARTCC/FIR. I.e. If I am an I1 at ZDC I can sign in as ZDC_JM_INS etc. with my I1 rating, but if I want to control at another ARTCC that I am certified at I can't sign in as like ZOB_JM_INS...however I CAN sign in with the I1 RATING.

 

Hope that helps, and sorry for not clarifying my point.

 

Take care,

Justin

[Harold Rutila 974112]

I'm not sure what rules other ARTCCs, FIRs, or regions have, however ZOB does have a specific policy for visiting controllers that states we cannot log in as an I1. It also says that we should log in as a Senior Controller (C3) in the event that we hold an I1 on VATSIM. This policy hasn't been updated yet in coordination with the Global Ratings Policy, but nonetheless it says that we can't use the I1. That policy was the whole origin of my question. Now that the GRP is in place, especially the VATUSA amendment, I was wondering if I needed to apply for a C3. Anyway, thank you guys for clarifying. Justin and the supervisor whom he asked are probably correct in saying that one may generally sign in as an I1 for any facility if you have it. ZOB is one of the few that has modified that rule for their ARTCC. I'm totally fine with it, and it makes sense.

 

That being said, no, you couldn't sign on as an I1 in ZOB . Confusing, isn't it? This will clarify: http://www.zobartcc.org/include/viewfile.php?action=view&ID=93

[Justin A. Martin]

This is a direct quote from Gary Millsaps:

 

You can login with the I1 in the RATING box of VRC/ASRC but you cannot use _I_ or _INS in the callsign you use unless you're certed at the visited ARTCC to provide instructor services...

 

JM

[Brian Sperduto 856560]

The hours logging is very simple your facility type determines if your hours are logged or not. Nothing else matters, not your callsign, not your range, not if you have _MEN in your callsign.

Edited May 7, 2008 at 07:30 PM by Guest

[Matthew Temple 880167]

Justin if a local policy prohibits using it then you cannot use it.

 

As for the hours logging its very simple your facility type determines if your hours are logged or not. Nothing else matters, not your callsign, not your range, not if you have _MEN in your callsign.

 

Are these local policies the same thing as covered under the VATNA local rules policy http://vatna.net/docs/NA_Policy_0505.pdf?

 

This is the link I am given to view the approved local rules http://vatna.net/?page_id=29.

[Norman Blackburn]

Justin if a local policy prohibits using it then you cannot use it.

 

Depends on the ARTCC. Some allow you to use your I-1, some don't.

 

Matthew has already addressed where Local (VATUSA) Policy can be located. Nowhere does it state an INS can't log on to provide Air Traffic Control services using their INS rating either at their home facility or one where they are a visitor.

[Bryan Wollenberg 810243]

Nowhere does it state an INS can't log on to provide Air Traffic Control services using their INS rating either at their home facility or one where they are a visitor.

 

Nor should it. At the highest form of beaurocracy, it's a VATUSA policy at the most, but the issuance of the rating and the powers the rating entails are usually granted at the individual ARTCC level. I'm not really sure VATNA needs to list anything regarding the INS rating.

 

Norm and all, I guess I look at it this way. C1 (C3) is the highest controller rating on the network. Anything above and beyond that indicates that you are performing a special duty. The INS rating means you are performing the duties of an Instructor, SUP means you're performing the duties of a Supervisor, and ADM means you are performing the duties of an Administrator.

 

Similarly, Supervisors cannot log in using the SUP rating when they are not providing SUP services. Why should it be any different for INSs? An INS visiting controller is not performing the duties of an INS, and should instead use his/her controller rating; C1 or C3. If I was visiting Oakland, for instance, I would certainly not use ZOA_BW_INS, nor would I log in as an INS when controlling there. I'm not an authorized Instructor in Oakland, and I'm certainly not providing instructor services while controlling there. I'd log in as a C3.