Ian Elchitz 810151 Posted August 7, 2008 at 06:35 PM Posted August 7, 2008 at 06:35 PM I can not resist not replying to Mr. Bartels post a few inches up on this page (or the previous?) even though it offers little value to an already worthless thread. Ok. If you want ...[snip] Great attitude! You are doing a fine job of PR for your facility. Try putting together events for ... [snip] Would you prefer some smoked Gouda or perhaps some Gruyere to go with that? Maybe you should look into the reasons why ... [snip] I have no clue why ZAU closed its doors, and to be honest didn't notice it had happened until reading this thread. This isn't the first time the doors to ZAU have been closed in the past few years - I myself lost a certification I held for over 5 years as a result of the last one. I honestly hope that ZAU figures out whatever they are working on and gets their training machine working again because I'm sure there are many virtual controllers (present or future) out there who are interested in being a part of it all. The Osh Kosh event is extremely unique and could have easily been pulled off with minimal planning to allow full time staffing by visitors. The event of years past that I mentioned was a huge success - and whoever owns the Osh Kosh airspace (ZAU I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume) was kind enough to simply open it up wide during the event to allow for maximum staffing. Over the course of the main day we ran it - controllers simply showed up and asked "anyone need a breather?" (usually answered by many), were provided with a very quick brief on how things were currently working and then they plugged into position until someone else showed up to relieve them. I'd say that at least 30 of the controllers who spent an hour or 5 controlling that day would make anyone's all star controller list - past, present, or future. There weren't any certification requirements - just show up and plug in where you were needed. The end result for both the pilots and controllers was one of those "magical" moments on the network that we've all experienced (I had one last night at Bar Harbor) and provided so much positive energy in the community that I'm sure benefited the hosting facility. When people have a good experience somewhere - they ALWAYS come back. Perhaps some planning should begin for next year's event. Kudos to whatever other network hosted a succesful event - next year that needs to be us. Ian Elchitz Just a guy without any fancy titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted August 7, 2008 at 06:52 PM Posted August 7, 2008 at 06:52 PM Actually it might have been fun to gather up some of the many experienced and talented controllers around various VATUSA ARTCCs, and temporarily allow them to visit just to work the event...similar to how it's done at the real AirVenture (Oshkosh)! See this link. Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted August 7, 2008 at 07:12 PM Posted August 7, 2008 at 07:12 PM Actually it might have been fun to gather up some of the many experienced and talented controllers around various VATUSA ARTCCs, and temporarily allow them to visit just to work the event...similar to how it's done at the real AirVenture (Oshkosh)! See this link. I like this idea... would certainly make it quite entertaining for the entirety of VATUSA. -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Turner Posted August 7, 2008 at 08:44 PM Posted August 7, 2008 at 08:44 PM Over the course of the main day we ran it - controllers simply showed up and asked "anyone need a breather?" (usually answered by many), were provided with a very quick brief on how things were currently working and then they plugged into position until someone else showed up to relieve them. I'd say that at least 30 of the controllers who spent an hour or 5 controlling that day would make anyone's all star controller list - past, present, or future. There weren't any certification requirements - just show up and plug in where you were needed. The end result for both the pilots and controllers was one of those "magical" moments on the network that we've all experienced (I had one last night at Bar Harbor) and provided so much positive energy in the community that I'm sure benefited the hosting facility. When people have a good experience somewhere - they ALWAYS come back. Perhaps some planning should begin for next year's event. Kudos to whatever other network hosted a succesful event - next year that needs to be us. Just like the old days... Good post Ian.... JU Jeff "JU" Turner US Army Retired http://www.skyblueradio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted August 7, 2008 at 09:00 PM Posted August 7, 2008 at 09:00 PM Ian, Bar Harbor was great last night... "Uhh.... OK, flight leader? I'm completely lost... I have no idea where I am..." -IE Wish I could make the Canadian trek tonight with Wayne... looks like a good one. OSH would have been amazing... especially with the ZLA flight club. hehee... We should go fly ZAU tomorrow night during FNO since Matt here has cordially invited us. -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Elchitz 810151 Posted August 8, 2008 at 12:49 AM Posted August 8, 2008 at 12:49 AM We should go fly ZAU tomorrow night during FNO since Matt here has cordially invited us. I would love to as I do love flying into the satellite fields around O'Hare and I'm sure that they'll all be on their game to prove a point (I mean this in a good way so don't misinterpret). Alas - the FNO's are usually too early for me to take part in seeing how I live in Mountain time zone and can't fly until after the kids are in bed, garbage is out - etc. Ian Elchitz Just a guy without any fancy titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Smith Posted August 8, 2008 at 02:35 PM Posted August 8, 2008 at 02:35 PM This has got to be a front runner for one of the most depressing threads I've ever seen on this forum. The level of maturity and empathy is staggering...with one misunderstanding following another. Nobody seems willing to acknowledge anybody's points, and there's tangent after tangent in a thread that's already screaming for mercy. My sympathy goes to the original poster. Haven't we witnessed these spirals enough times to recognize when they're happening and try to get out of it? I'm embarr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed that I've been encouraging real world pilots to join the network and peruse these forums to see what we're all about. There are now countless threads where the attitudes being shown by people in no way match the spirit of relations between controllers and pilots who are on the scope, working along side each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted August 8, 2008 at 02:47 PM Posted August 8, 2008 at 02:47 PM I couldn't have said it better myself, Keith. What's the purpose? I can see friendly arguments... I can see misunderstandings... but it's gone too far, and this thread is a good example how. Have we really forgotten what VATSIM and it's forums are about? It's not about whinning and complaining until you either a) get your way, or b) upset another person or people. I fret that most people have forgotten what VATSIM is for. It's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, for some (and usually most) realism is a huge importance, but this isn't real-world... the bickering on these forums, and not just this thread, has gone too far... can you tell me one good reason to start something like that? Any? Is it fun for you? Is that what "floats your boat"? Guys, enjoy the network, have fun, be realistic, work hard... but HAVE FUN. These threads are not fun, they're typical BS. The main purpose of these forums is to ask questions, find information out, talk with knowlegable people, and learn more. Some people just don't get it... Sorry for going a bit off-topic... this is something I've been wanting to say for a while and I just found the perfect chance. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Gercke 845743 Posted August 8, 2008 at 04:07 PM Posted August 8, 2008 at 04:07 PM I honestly hope that ZAU figures out whatever they are working on and gets their training machine working again because I'm sure there are many virtual controllers (present or future) out there who are interested in being a part of it all. Many good points, Ian, but I'll address this one, because it's the one that I'm familiar with. Chicago opened its application process for the TA position in early July. The application deadline was like the 26th, IIRC. There still has been no formal announcement from VATUSA regarding the approval of the selection of the TA. I know that it is out of ZAU's hands now because Jason and I talk fairly regularly. As far as your comment as to how it used to be, I'll agree. It was great when people were able to just show up, get on, and do their part. It gives me an idea, actually...... [soapbox] It appears, and this is just what it looks like, not saying that it really is this way, but it looks as though there is a lack of accountability continuing at the Management level. Of course I expect the standard issue response of "This is a hobby... blah blah blah..." I soundly disagree. VATSIM is a company, run as a corporation. When you agree to apply for and accept a management position, the idea of it being a hobby goes away, and you [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume a position of responsibility to perform the duties that you asked for and received. You have a responsibility to those people you are responsible for. Until we put people in those positions who are more interested in performance than in holding a title, it will never change. When it takes less time for me to submit something to the US Navy, have it run through my entire chain of command, go to Millington, Tenessee, and than on to Washington DC, and come back with a response in less time than it takes to get an answer back as to who should fill a position at an ARTCC, we have a problem.[/soapbox] The GX VATSIM Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Fredrich 827138 Posted August 9, 2008 at 02:05 AM Posted August 9, 2008 at 02:05 AM Until we put people in those positions who are more interested in performance than in holding a title, it will never change. Welcome to the FAA! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodge Jr 961044 Posted August 9, 2008 at 04:23 AM Posted August 9, 2008 at 04:23 AM VATSIM is a company, run as a corporation. When you agree to apply for and accept a management position, the idea of it being a hobby goes away, and you [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume a position of responsibility to perform the duties that you asked for and received. You have a responsibility to those people you are responsible for. Until we put people in those positions who are more interested in performance than in holding a title, it will never change. Bo, that is one of the truest statements I've seen. Yes this is a hobby, Yes we do this for fun, but these are still management positions, Which requires just that... management. Someone once told me the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. If you sign up for a position of management, go in there do it to the best of your ability. No excuses. If you have the opportunity to fix somethings, and don't seize that opportunity, then don't complain. There are many times where I see people say they want to be in a staff position for any reason but to make that change and its frustrating. I can't speak for anyone else, only for myself, and when I took my current position I knew what needed to be fixed. When I step down some day, I'll step down knowing that I fixed it. I'll leave knowing that even if I wasn't the "best" at it, I left knowing there were problems solved, and solutions gained. That too me is more then a title. It's not about glory. Trust me, spend hours upon hours upon hours of redeveloping docomeentation and I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you, no glory here. Yet, there are still those who take a position for the wrong reasons.... My point everyone is simply this: IF you want to give back to the hobby which gives so much to us, then take a staff position, but do it for all the right reasons. Change what needs to be changed, and do what needs to be done. If you leave the position better then you took it, then kudos. If you take it, and it becomes to overwhelming (as it is likely to do eventually) then simply allow someone else with the opportunity. -Mike Michael D. Hodge Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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