Difference in terminology - UK and US...

[Wyatt Najaro 839595]

Just saw the additional questions. In the last 2-3 months I have heard "Line up and Wait" at Waukegan, Kenosha and Midway.

 

Dave

 

hmm interesting, kind of strange the FAA granted those two small airports a waiver to even be allowed to use position and hold or 'line up and wait' as you suggest.

Edited July 21, 2008 at 09:07 PM by Guest

[Wyatt Najaro 839595]

No one is debating whether it is officially position and hold

 

really?

[Justin A. Martin]

Yes Wyatt, really. We all know position and hold is still valid. Dave was merely suggesting that it Line up and Wait may become valid in the near future, that's all... no need to blow it out of proportion...

 

JM

[Wyatt Najaro 839595]

Yes Wyatt, really. We all know position and hold is still valid. Dave was merely suggesting that it Line up and Wait may become valid in the near future, that's all... no need to blow it out of proportion...

 

JM

 

thanks for clarification justin

 

now allow me to clarify

 

I have heard "Line up and Wait" at Waukegan, Kenosha and Midway.

 

thats what I'm getting at...

[Justin A. Martin]

Oh, okay. I understand. Thanks for the clarification on your part, as well Wyatt.

 

JM

[Quinn Rogness 995587]

Justin..not quite.

 

Position in Hold is being replaced by Line up and Wait in the U.S.

 

Leading zeros in callsigns ARE called out (big discussion on this in these forums and the reference was cited...do a forum search to see). There were many people who argued U.S. doesn't call out leading zeros until they were shown the ref. For example, if a United flight is 091, controller would call him "United zero nine one"...most U.S. carriers just don't use leading zeros in their callsigns.

 

There typically are NOT leading zeros in wind speeds, hence those aren't called. On the other hand, headings/directons DO have leading zeros (a controller will never say "turn left, fly heading ninety"...he will say "turn left, fly heading zero nine zero".

 

Best place to see US Phraseoogy will be in one of the ARTCC training pages.

 

all the best,

Dave

true, but... each controller has a little bit of their own phraseology and style.

[Michael Benson]

Morning Brad,

 

only having one aircraft on the glideslope (I remember that being the case; it's been a while since I've flown in the UK), you have all of the stacked holds.

 

It is permissable to have more than one aircraft on the ILS at once in the Uk. There are plenty of pictures about showing 5+ aircraft on the ILS at places like Heathrow, Gatwick, etc.

 

Eg - here

 

The problem with holding in the Uk is two fold.

 

1) The major airports are basically full (Heathrow is currently operating at 98% of total capacity) therefore any slight delay has a m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ive knock on effect.

 

2) The lack of airspace in which ATC have to maneouvre aircraft. For example the London TMA is approximatly 50nm x 50nm in which there is crammed London Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, City; along with smaller aerodromes like Biggin Hill, Northolt; and then the 30 or so even smaller fields. There simply isn't the space to start sequencing traffic long before it enters the sector and therefore holding is the only option. Some of the STARs in the USA are longer than the UK is wide!

 

Sorry to go a little off track!

[Justin A. Martin]

true, but... each controller has a little bit of their own phraseology and style.

 

Quinn,

 

True, but only to some extent. For the most part in the US phraseology is followed by the book. Obviously it's much more relaxed on VATSIM, but you won't (or shouldn't) hear a controller say "Why don'tcha head on down to 3 "kay", Delta 783".

 

See what I mean?

 

But, again, you are correct for the most part, Quinn.

 

JM

[Harold Rutila 974112]

Thanks for the reply, David.

 

That's interesting that they used that phraseology. Maybe they were studying it. Anyway that's cool, thanks.