Project Eastern Wind

[Jewon Lee 909227]

All right, I just want to lay out a large frame for the further discussion.

 

Even though we Asian VATSIM countries mainly VATKOR, VATROC, VATJPN have significant numbers of traffic available to be airborne, we unfortunately have not had any unique event held open to the world of VATSIM users. Yes, we had one VHHH-RKSI event few months ago but that was originally planned by the western nation country's airline... not a country or division...

 

SB 3.0.3 is working fabulous for more and better connectivity to the VATSIM server and every minute and second, more new users are coming in to experience the world of aviation. Therefore, I think it is great idea that we invite these VATSIM pilots in an official and professional manner to host a Region-wide (FAR EAST or... the entire Asia) event.

 

Some major preps need to be done, I believe we would need 1) a full set of controllers who can staff their countries major airports at that time (minimally center and approach control) 2) all IAP should be docomeented in graphic or PDF format and be available to the incoming and outgoing pilots, 3) preferrable routes between countries shall be established.

 

 

I hardly doubt that there will be a country participating besides VATKOR, VATROC, and VATJPN. HOWEVER, that does not mean that you cannot participate in the event. If you are from one of many Asian countries and are able to fulfil the need above, i don't see any problem.

 

All VATASIA staff members, what do you think?

 

 

Jewon Lee

VATKOR7 INFORMATION MANAGER

VATASIA REGIONAL CONLFLICT RESOLUTION PANEL

Virtual CPC Seoul Int'l Apporach & Tower

"Throw your F/O out the window for Radar Identification Please."

[Terrance Kan 841637]

yea let's do it

did you read my topic that i posted on last week (Let's relight the KAi Tak13) ?

 

well that is me and Gary's suggestion about the event , we are always looking forward to held an event and we wanna relight the whold asia

[Jewon Lee 909227]

I agree with you Timothy but I really think it would be better if not just few individuals but entire VATKOR, VATROC, and VATJPN plans this together as a whole region and divisions. As Timothy pointed out, we could do VHHX (VHHH) - RKSI (RKSS) - RJAA (RJOO). They are in the proximity of each other and flight time between these cities will only take 1-3 hours. Not a boring 12-hour flight but fun flights with full ATCs.

 

I doubt that many people know about RKSI (Incheon Int'l) even though RKSI is one of the biggest airport hub in Asia for cargo and stuff. Maybe we will plan RKSI as a connecting hub between HKG and JPN. I don't know. that's just one of my many suggestions.

 

What do you think people? I need your participation and enthusiasm!

 

 

Jewon Lee

VATKOR7 INFORMATION MANAGER

VATASIA REGIONAL CONLFLICT RESOLUTION PANEL

Virtual CPC Seoul Int'l Apporach & Tower

"Throw your F/O out the window for Radar Identification Please."

[William Woo 810764]

Jewon,

 

Fully agree..

Few years ago, we have one join event for all 3 divisions here.It's time to plan for another major one.

Currently, we are working on the new website and it will provide charts for most of the asian countries.

However, it is very hard to collect good quality charts which are freely downable. We don't want to use those Jeppesen charts with might have problem with copyrights.

 

If any one have any good source of information, please let me know.

 

THe new website is nearly ready. It is under testing. You have have a look on the following link

 

http://www.vatasia.net/index.php

 

Regards,

William Woo

VATASIA Region Director

[William Woo 810764]

Jewon,

 

Fully agree..

Few years ago, we have one join event for all 3 divisions here.It's time to plan for another major one.

Currently, we are working on the new website and it will provide charts for most of the asian countries.

However, it is very hard to collect good quality charts which are freely downable. We don't want to use those Jeppesen charts with might have problem with copyrights.

 

If any one have any good source of information, please let me know.

 

THe new website is nearly ready. It is under testing. You have have a look on the following link

 

http://www.vatasia.net/index.php

 

Regards,

William Woo

VATASIA Region Director

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Jewon,

 

However, it is very hard to collect good quality charts which are freely downable. We don't want to use those Jeppesen charts with might have problem with copyrights.

 

 

Do you really think so? I honestly do not know about this copyrights issue. Overall it is not a commerical use and charts provided will not be a current but rather months-outdated ones (well, at least for Korea). Probably you could contact staff from VATUSA or VATEUR and ask them how they dealt with chart issues when hosting a REGION-WIDE event?

 

For Korea, I have chart pack readily available for airports within Seoul TMA (RKSI, RKSS, RKSN, and RKSM) in PDF format.

 

However, it is licensed for Korean Air and I am trying to figure out how to edit this PDF file... I don't have the ultimate adobe pack with editing function...

 

Well let's think about this carefully.

 

Thanks.

[William Woo 810764]

Jewon,

 

I got in touch with a guy from Pakistan and he did run into trouble with Jeppensen some times ago as he put up old charts. He got warning and nearly sued by the company. That's why he removed all the charts from his site.

 

It is not a good idea to put up any commerical products even if it is for non-commerical use.

 

For Korea, I have put up the link to the AIP and it contains most update charts for use already.

For other countries, I try hard to locate the AIP or from other freely downloadable charts source.

 

For event in between currently active divisions, it is not that difficult as the information is pretty much easy to access. The only difficulties will be to access those unfamiliar area outside the currently active division like Vietnam, Mainland China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines etc.

 

William

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Mr. Woo,

 

Yes Sir... I understand.

 

ROK government AIP system is really good for the flight but personally i don't think they are not really the best charts to read and have situational awareness fast. But I guess it's the only option for Korea... One thing I am wondering tho... where are VATJPN guys? We need to talk to them about this event also.

 

And I guess we need to make a "Universal Web Page" that redirects people to the available charts. I am pretty usre that Japanese government publishes AIP sites like Korea... We maybe can acchive them as a PDF file and distribute them non-commerical use.

[Kar-Lok Wong 839249]

About the copyright.

 

I also agree with William, the site is not for commercial use, but the copyright is till in force.

 

Maybe with Jeppesen approval you can put them online, but probably you have to buy it first. Because they also have simcharts, that is a product not for commercial use, but only for flight simulator.

 

About PDF docomeents, that's why I'm thinking of. Create our own charts, the beginning is hard, you have to draw all lines from scrath. but after that, update is very easy to made, only add a taxiway, or change gates.

[Jewon Lee 909227]

For Korea, simply we can redirect pilots to the AIP page that our Ministry of Construction and Trainsportation setup for us. What I am saying as "Universal Page" is a page that redirects people to the necessary charts they need. Our VATASIA Universal Chart Page would make "One Stop" shopping for pilots in need of flight info.

 

I believe, for Korean airports, pilots participating in the event wouldn't have problems because all the government charts are set up in pdf file online for convenient viweing. The problem is, what about China and Japan? You guys need to confirm if your government is publishing AIP and IAP charts online for public viewing.

 

If they do have AIP pages setup online, hell, forget Jeppesen. We can just use governments' ones.

[William Woo 810764]

For Korea, simply we can redirect pilots to the AIP page that our Ministry of Construction and Trainsportation setup for us. What I am saying as "Universal Page" is a page that redirects people to the necessary charts they need. Our VATASIA Universal Chart Page would make "One Stop" shopping for pilots in need of flight info.

 

I believe, for Korean airports, pilots participating in the event wouldn't have problems because all the government charts are set up in pdf file online for convenient viweing. The problem is, what about China and Japan? You guys need to confirm if your government is publishing AIP and IAP charts online for public viewing.

 

If they do have AIP pages setup online, hell, forget Jeppesen. We can just use governments' ones.

 

Jewon,

 

That's exactly the problem with Asia. Very few countries provide free downloadable charts. Japan has the electronic AIS NOTAM system but it doesn't link to their AIP. I cannot find any link even from their government site.

I know that a few scenery software bundle do include an electronic copy of Japan AIP but I don't have a chance to get hold of it.

Also, such bundled AIP may be outdated, only current when the software publishes.

 

For China, it is even worse. It is hard to get access to the AIP. Of cause they publish AIP but it is not easy to get a copy, even a printed copy. No only it is expensive, the Chinese government also consider it somewhat cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ified. There is no link to their AIP online either.

 

The only available AIPs that we can locate are: South Korea, Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore. For the rest of the countries, I am afraid that they are not available online.

 

If you check the new website, you can see that if these AIPs are available, we already put up links. If they are not there, it simply meant that it is NOT available at the time. I have done very extensive search before and unfortunately this is the reality!

 

 

William Woo

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Roger... I think there are prolly abundant charts available for Japan and China anyways... especially Narita and VHHH...

 

By the way, where are VATJPN guys? We need to talk to them. It CAN'T be like Korea and China setup a plan, you just FOLLOW IT!

 

 

Regards,

[Kar-Lok Wong 839249]

Roger... I think there are prolly abundant charts available for Japan and China anyways... especially Narita and VHHH...

 

By the way, where are VATJPN guys? We need to talk to them. It CAN'T be like Korea and China setup a plan, you just FOLLOW IT!

 

Regards,

 

As you can see on the website, japan and hong kong charts are already available.

For Hong Kong we can use the electronic AIP provided by the Hong Kong Authority.

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Well, I actually do know that VATJPN provides jeppesen charts online... but the problem is:

 

Will Jeppesen hold VATASIA responsible for copyright violation if we post this event as a VATSIM-wide event on the VATSIM.net front page?

 

If Jeppesent would not, fine, it should be all right for everyone. Hell, if they won't say nothing for outdated charts online, I will post Korean jeppesen charts online too in PDF format so pilots can have a bundle instead of one chart at a time.

 

VATKOR and Hong Kong airports have readily available AIP online... the problem lies with VATJPN and VATROC (Taiwan).

 

Of course statement above are made under the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umption that mainland China VATSIM authority will not participate in this event (even though it would be great if they do).

 

Regards,

[Kar-Lok Wong 839249]

Will Jeppesen hold VATASIA responsible for copyright violation if we post this event as a VATSIM-wide event on the VATSIM.net front page?

 

Regards,

Depends where the charts are hosted, but if they are on vatasia.net they have the rights to do so.

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Will Jeppesen hold VATASIA responsible for copyright violation if we post this event as a VATSIM-wide event on the VATSIM.net front page?

 

Regards,

Depends where the charts are hosted, but if they are on vatasia.net they have the rights to do so.

 

Then what about private servers like mine? It's located in Korea.

[Norman Blackburn]

Surely its best to not use the copyrighted material in a public event, no matter whose server it is on.

[William Woo 810764]

Will Jeppesen hold VATASIA responsible for copyright violation if we post this event as a VATSIM-wide event on the VATSIM.net front page?

 

Regards,

Depends where the charts are hosted, but if they are on vatasia.net they have the rights to do so.

 

Then what about private servers like mine? It's located in Korea.

 

No matter where the files are located, distribution of such material in whatever way, in either electronic or published form, is already a violation of copyright. Even if the charts are outdated, they still hold the copyright.

 

In your case, you are held responsible if your server distribute it. DON'T risk it, please.

 

Regards,

William

[Jewon Lee 909227]

that's what i thought...

 

Now, Mr. Woo, are you being successful contacting VATJPN staff?

[Keisuke Yamane]

Hello.

I am Keisuke Yamane from VATJPN.

So sorry that participation was late.

I charged myself with the responsibility of doing.

 

My best regards.

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Mr. Yamane,

 

Thanks for coming. Is VATJPN willing to provide necessary service and participate fully if this event comes true?

 

By saying necessary service, of course it means almost-full staffing of your major airport ATC facilities such and Narita, Haneda, and Osaka.

 

Thank you and I expect positive response.

 

Regards,

[Keisuke Yamane]

Mr. Lee,

 

 

If the schedule of an event is decided, I am going to look for the controllers

who take charge of Narita Airport and Kansai Airport in VATJPN website.

So,I want to look for seven peoples for controller,

RORG_CTR (Naha_control),

RJDG_CTR (Fukuoka_control),

RJTG_CTR (Tokyo_control),

RJAA_APP (Narita_approach),

RJAA_TWR (Narita_tower),

RJBB_APP (Kansai_approach)

and

RJBB_TWR (Kansai_tower)

 

 

Regards,

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Mr Yamane,

 

It doesn't have to be two aiports... all we need is one airport with full ATC service able... and ARTCC facility manned therefore entire country is under the influence of ATC service...

 

Now, we gathered all together and have charts somewhat ready.

 

It's time to talk about detils like how we going to proceed with event.

 

I am thinking setting up a 3-point route such as 1. VHHH- 2. RKSI- 3. RJAA

 

 

Let me know what you were thinking about and we also need some possible dates for this event.

 

 

Regards,

[Keisuke Yamane]

As a result of discussed in VATJPN, it was judged that Fukuoka airport(RJFF) is more suitable.

The reasons of RJFF are ...

 

1. Near of other airports.

 

2. RJTG_CTR is unnecessary for RJFF.

　 It is difficult to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]emble controllers for major event.

 

 

 

 

August or later is good for VATJPN...

[Jewon Lee 909227]

Mr. Yamane,

 

I understand RJFF is suitable but Tokyo Control is essential in this operation sice Tokyo Control controlls all the aircraft comes inbound from China and Korea into Japan.

 

Of course, it is best if you can man all the centers if possible.

 

For Korea, Incheon Center, RKSI, RKSS will be manned down to the tower and ground.

 

VATROC, are you ready sir?

 

Regards,