ATIS or Current Runways in Use

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

I was wondering if there's a frequency to check the current runways in use.

 

Using ServIno, I can receive the latest METAR however it only gives me a clue as what runways are currently in use. FS2002-FS2006 is kinda useless dialing up the ATIS frequencies, as it's runways are [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned by the wind factor, not what ATC has [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned.

 

This would be helpfull to me, as a pilot, to know what STARS I should file for my planned departure time. (I know this can all change if the wind shifts, but I like to be prepared)

 

Same goes enroute, I like to tune the Arrival Airports' ATIS as soon I'm in range of that frequency, so I'm READY for a change in flight.

 

Of course, if nobody is running that sector, (i.e. CLR, GRD, TWR, APP, or CTR) I just launch anyway I want to!

 

But when you ATC guys are there...

 

 

Thanks for your consideration,

 

Gerry Hattendorf

[Andre Koch 852831]

If you are using SB3 you can do so by right-clicking the station´s name and then selecting "Get Controller Info". That will display the ATIS of that controller in the left screen of the SB3. Also you can use the ".atis" command to get the ATIS of any station you like, even if it´s not in range. Let´s say you want to get the ATIS of Newark Tower, in that case you would just tpye ".atis kewr_v_twr" (without the hyphens). Make sure you put a dot before the word "atis", else it won´t work. Also make sure you have the spelling of the station you want to poll correct. Newark Tower might actually call itself kewr_twr, kewr_t_twr or whatever, so make sure you got that one right.

 

In case you go online with FSInn you can do the above as well, but I don´t know how it works of the top of my head since I use SB3 myself and only fool around with FSInn every now and then. It is possible though, and I´m sure someone else will be able to tell you how it´s done.

[Javier Larroulet]

Andre,

AFAIK the term ATIS has been discussed in the past for being inaccurate for vatsim's purposes. For that reason SB3 no longer supports the .atis command (which was deprecated) and the dot-command used to get Controller Information is .info

[Andre Koch 852831]

Oh, learn something new every day. Thanks Javier!

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Thank you both very much for your feedback, however when i type ".info " i.e. LAX_V_CTR, it tells me the name of the controller and a message to "Leave feedback at laartcc.org", but nothing about runways in use.

 

I must be missing a step here, even went to laartcc.org but couldn't find anything about an ATIS.

 

I guess I could just contact the controller prior to filing, but this doesn't seem the professional way to do it.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks again,

 

Gerry Hattendorf

 

PS Yes, I'm using SB3

[Ruth McTighe 824054]

you won't get the runway in use from a CTR position .info because the en-route controllers aren't responsible for the airports. If they are covering airports on a top-down basis, they will be covering too many to put the runway in use for each airport. You need to .info either APP, TWR or GND.

 

If they aren't online you can get the correct direction for landing by calling up the metar (I can never remember whether it's .wx or .metar) and calculate it for yourself. Land into the wind, unless it's calm in which case there may be a preferred runway. With an airport with dual runways and no controllers online then agree with any other aircraft on unicom which you are going to use. EGLL has a runway rotation table which is available on the EGLL pages of www.vatsim-uk.org.

 

Ruth

VATUK2

[Marc Sykes 852946]

LAX_CTR provides departure/approach services into hundreds of airports, so it wouldn't be possible to enter runway info for all of them. Generally you will only see local controllers (TWR/GND) provide runway information in their controller info, sometimes an approach position that only provides services into one large airport (not the case with our APP positions generally) will do it.

 

You can ask, but to be honest I don't see the necessity. Unlike in Europe for example, our SIDs and STARs are usually not runway-dependent, and if by chance you accidentally file an east ops departure when we're west, we'll let you know that and suggest the appropriate procedure to use instead. I suggest filing a flightplan in Squawkbox and getting clearance *prior* to programming your FMC anyway, so that if the entire route needs to be changed you haven't wasted all that time. When inbound, you'll be given the runway and approach in use prior to entering approach control airspace, which is plenty of time to get things programmed. Again, real pilots usually leave the approach blank in the FMC until they talk to approach control, rather than guessing and being wrong.

 

In real life, when pilots tune the ATIS they're more concerned about getting the weather, plus any special advisories, than they are about getting the runway in use -- particularly since most major airports use multiple runways, so even if you know say 25L and 24R are active for arrivals, you still don't know which one you're going to get until you talk to approach. I've never really understood why VATSIM pilots always seem to need this information hundreds of miles out. But if you feel you do need it, and it's not in anyone's controller info, then it's easy enough to ask the controller.

[Justin Wilcox 882814]

Marc has it right. All ARTCC's provide service to more than just one or two major airports so I'm not going to put a million airports in my ATIS. Plus after you read back the clearance controllers will give you the runway to expect almost 100% of the time. If you need to know before that feel free to ask...

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Marc and Justin,

 

Thanks for the understanding. I can believe CTR controllers cant be responsible for the active runways within their sector, and of course if there were a APP/DEP, TWR, GRD, or CLR online I would certainly contact them first.

 

True, it's not the end of the world to file a SID that's somewhat runway dependent (the LAXX5 for example) and get a different SID than filed, but that's what pilot pre-flight planning is all about.

 

I attempt to retreive your "preferred routes" whenever possible, and forcasting the weather at the arrival airport helps me make decisions about the STAR and IAP I can expect. of course, all that can change enroute!

 

I guess I just like hearing my clearance as "cleared as filed"!

 

Thanks again gentlemen!

 

Gerry Hattendorf

 

PS I havn't been able to try it, but if TWR is manned, would I get runway info by using the ".info ?

[Ross Carlson]

PS I havn't been able to try it, but if TWR is manned, would I get runway info by using the ".info ?

 

Only if the Tower controller puts it in his controller info, which he certainly should if he's trying to be realistic.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Thanks Ross!

 

I haven't had the oppurtunity to log-on with an active TWR yet, but will look for one!

 

Thanks much!

 

Gerry

 

PS If you know the SEA arrival personel that were working the arrivals this afternoon, (around 20:15Z) please offer my applogies as I had experienced (another) Desktop Crash.

 

I'm working to fix this very annoying feature. Thanks again.

[Steve Ogrodowski 876322]

The only thing I'd like to note, though, in most USA airports (actually all that I'm aware of), DPs (Departure Procedures), and STARs (Standard Terminal Arrival Routes) are not runway dependent. They are for the entire facility in general, under any weather conditions, so you can file for the DP or STAR to your airport and you will be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned any of the runways at the airport the ATC wishes to use. Our STARs and DPs are written to provide a universal departure procedure in any weather conditions, arriving or departing any of the facility's runways.

 

For example, in D21 Detroit, we have three DPs for KDTW, GENEVA2, PALACE2, and STCLAIR2. They all have some departure fixes on it that must be filed for, but you can be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned rwy 22L for departure, or the reciprocal 4R (depending on winds), and each departure procedure applies to both runways. Either way, you still recieve radar vectors to that fix after you're airborne. Same for the STARs, there are four: MIZAR3, POLAR1, SPICA2, and CETUS2. They are for every arrival runway, they are just dependent on which way you're coming to the airport. If you were coming from Boston, you'd be on the SPICA or CETUS arrivals, as they are on the east side of DTW. If you come in from Chicago or Los Angeles, you'd file either POLAR or MIZAR, as they are on the west side of the TRACON. Once you p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the arrival fix (say, MIZAR, which is 40 miles from the field), you will receive vectors to whichever runway is in use.

 

In fact, not every Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo or Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Charlie airport has DP's or STARs! KCLE has no Departure procedure! We have five preferred departure fixes, but no official procedure. Most smaller Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Charlies don't have any procedures at all. Our Buffalo airport has a Departure Procedure, but no STARs!

 

From what you were saying, to me, I gathered that you were looking for runway specific procedures, like most of the European fields. The US operates a bit different in that the procedures don't apply to specific runways, they have amendments for each runway on them, if the need be.

 

You will need to know which runways to expect though so you can check the Instrument arrival plates for wherever you are arriving, if you are to expect an instrument approach. That's where runway info is important.

 

-Steve Ogrodowski

ZOB Chief Instructor

[Ross Carlson]

Not sure about other fields, but Boston has one DP that is runway specific, but it's almost never used. The WYLYY5 DP is for runway 27 only. Just about everyone uses the LOGAN2 though, which is has a turnout procedure for each runway. So, runway-specific DPs do exist, but they are not common.

[Craig Moulton]

Something that I was thinking about entails a bit of work from a variety of people and should only be considered a suggestion that is still in its planning stages. This is the first time I've made it public, and I have NO clue whether it is feasable.

 

My idea is that each ARTCC/FIR etc would be able to write up a quick, down and dirty airport info text file for each of its most used airports that contains important information, such as calm wind runway, Wind thresholds for changing runways, noise abatement runways and times, and other Wx factors which might determine the rwy (such as using a CATIII rwy if wx is below normal ILS minima).

 

The pilot would then type a "dot command" via SB3/FSINN for the airport in question (such as .info KLAX) and the saved text file would be presented in his pilot client.

 

Yes, this is a lot like what we used to have, but rather than giving wx info, it would give airport info to aid the pilot. He can always get wx info by using the .metar dot command.

 

A sample of such a text file would be...

 

KSMX (Santa Maria Public, CA). Calm wind Rwy 30. Rwy 12 used for winds in excess of 6 kts out of the East. Winds out of the N/S at 8 kts or greatere will use Rwy 2/20 as required. ILS Rwy 12 used for low vis arrivals, with Circle to land Rwy 30 when wx greater than 600'/1SM.

 

Of course a standard format could be developed and incorporated for all airports. This idea would require changes of the pilot clients, FSD software and of course would require each ARTCC to do some homework, and write up the text files.

 

Is this possible to do? Yes.

 

Is this feasable to do? I can not answer that.

[Ross Carlson]

Hi Craig,

 

I think this idea has significant potential. The way I see it, this would be implemented as a third-party web-based database, similar to simroutes.com, so that no server-side modifications would be needed. ARTCC staff could log into the site and update the information for their airports. (The database could be pre-populated with a list of all airports in each ARTCC ... I believe that data is in DAFIF and/or AIRAC.) Pilots could then visit the web site to search for airport information for their route. Pilot client authors could still implement a dot command like you mentioned, which would grab the data from the site via an XML feed or similar, but they wouldn't have to. Pilots could just use the web if their pilot client of choice had no dot command for retrieval of the data.

 

If this project begins to move forward, I would be interested in participating in planning and/or development.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Hey Folks,

 

Sorry if I overlooked it, but as a pilot would tune to the ATIS freq published for the a/p.

 

As my "weather" is updated every 10 mins, I notice the ALPHA code changes every cycle.

 

My normal procedure is to check WX for DEP/ARR, enroute,, blah blah but when I ask for taxi clearance, I always check the ATIS freq, and tell the controller the current ALPHA code of the ATIS on taxi request.

 

Is this too much extra stuff you guys could care less about? Or is there a "preferred" way to let ATC know "I've got the numbers"?

 

Thanks,

 

Gerry Hattendorf

[Steve Ogrodowski 876322]

I utilize ATIS Maker when running Approach or lower, and use the Weather Identifier to the rule. I ensure all aircraft have the info before issuing their IFR/VFR clearance, and then eliminates all need for me or any other controller to issue weather info to the aircraft in the terminal.

 

Basically you just say "Information ALPHA, requesting clearance to LAX..." or even, if I don't have the info ident in, maybe as Center or something, I very much prefer pilots to report "with the numbers." Makes my job easier (faster, really). ex: "Cleveland Center, Continental 334 requesting IFR to Newark from Cleveland with the numbers..." or "Cleveland Center Continental 334 requesting taxi, with the numbers..." When pilots report with the numbers/weather info, it means that I as the controller don't have to issue the altimeter and winds for clearances. May sound lazy on my part, but it is standard procedure in the real world, as you noted, Gerry.

 

-Steve O

ZOB CI

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Thanks Steve,

 

So you would prefer pilots to just say "with the numbers" over the ALPHA system? (for ex. tune to LAX ATIS in FS2004 on 133.8, and you could get "information Bravo") The automated broadcast looks like the same WX thats tranmitted over ServInfo, and ASRC as well. but the "automated" runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments sound like some lazy algorithm hard-coded into MSFS. (don't know this, just taking a guess)

 

In other words, don't worry about published ATIS frequencies?

 

Thanks,

 

Gerry

[Ross Carlson]

Gerry, you generally shouldn't use the MSFS autoATIS when connecting to VATSIM. In many cases, the FS weather will be different than what the VATSIM weather servers show to the controllers. If the controller has an ATIS code in their info, use that, otherwise you could use the .metar function in SB3 ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming you use that) and just say you have the numbers when you call up for clearance.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Thanks for the heads-up, learned something new!

 

Cheers!

 

Gerry

[Scott Bickford]

Someone asked me the runway information and I also said to use .atis on the tower. They stated that the FMS required it on the STAR. Is this something new, perhaps with PMDG 747?

[Fred Clausen]

Scott,

 

It isn't. You can select a STAR, and come back later and select the runway.

[Javier Larroulet]

that should only apply to STAR procedures which are good for any runway (i.e. most or all STARs in the US) However other countries have different STARs for each runway thereshold in which case you'd need to know the runway in use before selecting a STAR

 

Same goes for SID's

[Fred Clausen]

I stand corrected

[Ross Carlson]

The PMDG 737 is the same way. At some fields, it won't show you any choices for STARs until you choose a runway. Same with DPs, I believe.