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Questions on radar floor, range, slope, and holes


Karl Kornel 964857
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Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2021 at 1:33 PM, Juan Amado said:

Hello all.

According to the question of Eiving to simulate some radar holes made by obstacles as mountains, what'd be the procedure to create this in the new radar section. We could create the radar, give the cone of silence to each one and it worked perfectly good with the new radar2 object which implements the formula of the earth curvature. The result is a perfect simulation. However we have signal on areas where due to mountains we shouldn't see any traffic.

I've seen the docs but not sure what this does.

I attach a picture about what we'd like to create.

Cheers all.

image.thumb.png.8b50790c66d003804fd90fdab447f284.png

What you do is make a polygon with the COORD: format. For instance as the red box I've drawn where I think you want a blindspot.

Then add the hole info i.e:

HOLE:15000:10500:10000

These values will hide tracks up to 15k for Primary targets, 10.5k for Mode-S targets and 10k for C-mode targets.

Where you lay out your holes should account for different antennas as you could have an antenna offset that actually could see behind the mountain. Euroscope emulates multiple radars merged together into one scope. 

20210514_014829.png

 

I've also attached a couple of pictures of how we have it arranged in Norway. I've staggered the holes as "stairs". Where the radars can see longer as the targets get higher. 

Red are primary radar holes, green are MSSR holes. 

unknown-1.png

unknown.png

Edited by Bjoern Helge Smaavollan
Added more info.
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Bjoern Helge Smaavollan said:

What you do is make a polygon with the COORD: format. For instance as the red box I've drawn where I think you want a blindspot.

Then add the hole info i.e:

HOLE:15000:10500:10000

These values will hide tracks up to 15k for Primary targets, 10.5k for Mode-S targets and 10k for C-mode targets.

Where you lay out your holes should account for different antennas as you could have an antenna offset that actually could see behind the mountain. Euroscope emulates multiple radars merged together into one scope. 

I've also attached a couple of pictures of how we have it arranged in Norway. I've staggered the holes as "stairs". Where the radars can see longer as the targets get higher. 

Red are primary radar holes, green are MSSR holes. 

Thank you for the answer Bjoern. As I see it is like volumetric poligons in which radar will not be targeted. That's exactly what I was searching for.

And thank you for the tip about the stairs, I think this is how I will implement it at least on the canary islands. For the Barcelona and Madrid sectors will be a bit more difficult as there are many more radars and mountains. Fortunately we can get the radar range for all depending on the altitude (as you recomended) from the national air traffic web.

Once more, thanks for the explanation.

Edited by Juan Amado

Juan Amado (S3 VATSPA - 1423499)

VATSPA Staff - Events & Members Director

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/14/2021 at 1:56 AM, Bjoern Helge Smaavollan said:

What you do is make a polygon with the COORD: format. For instance as the red box I've drawn where I think you want a blindspot.

Then add the hole info i.e:

HOLE:15000:10500:10000

These values will hide tracks up to 15k for Primary targets, 10.5k for Mode-S targets and 10k for C-mode targets.

Where you lay out your holes should account for different antennas as you could have an antenna offset that actually could see behind the mountain. Euroscope emulates multiple radars merged together into one scope. 

20210514_014829.png

 

I've also attached a couple of pictures of how we have it arranged in Norway. I've staggered the holes as "stairs". Where the radars can see longer as the targets get higher. 

Red are primary radar holes, green are MSSR holes. 

unknown-1.png

unknown.png

How did you manage to do that representation of the radar @Bjoern Helge Smaavollan Would like to try to recreate it for my region

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/29/2021 at 1:30 AM, Filip Markoski said:

How did you manage to do that representation of the radar @Bjoern Helge Smaavollan Would like to try to recreate it for my region

Sorry for late response. 

I've used Global Mapper. Imported a 50m terrain model of Norway, then placed the different radar sites and created viewsheds for the different altitudes. Per 500ft for low altitudes, then per 1000ft and finally 5000ft for altitudes above 10.000ft.

I then traced the holes and created polygons for the radar holes. 

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Is there any option that Euroscope can save the antennas that are on or off? They are set in the ese file and I might have different .prf's files pointing to that sct/ese file. My question is wether I can have all the radar in the same ese file and depending on which prf file is opened, some antennas are set to on and other are set to off. Therefore opening another prf would set on the antennas desired. Any chance for this?

Juan Amado (S3 VATSPA - 1423499)

VATSPA Staff - Events & Members Director

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Just now, Juan Amado said:

Is there any option that Euroscope can save the antennas that are on or off? They are set in the ese file and I might have different .prf's files pointing to that sct/ese file. My question is wether I can have all the radar in the same ese file and depending on which prf file is opened, some antennas are set to on and other are set to off. Therefore opening another prf would set on the antennas desired. Any chance for this?

@Juan Amado You can use either comment (add ; before the antenna in ESE), or use .antennaoff <antenna name> in ES

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I will give an example. I have an ese file for the whole fir LECB. Inside this FIR we have various ACC, for example Barcelona, Valencia and Palma. All the existent antennas in the whole fir are written in the ese file. But on Barcelona irl they use for example 6 of them, in valencia another different 4 and in palma 4 different ones. Is there any option to simulate that whithout creating different ese files for the different ACC?

Edited by Juan Amado

Juan Amado (S3 VATSPA - 1423499)

VATSPA Staff - Events & Members Director

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