CPDLC, ACARS

[James White]

Very interesting. I am going to add this capability to my aircraft. During my last "cross the Pond" I was able to make just one position report on oceanic. The frequencies are so congested, transmissions getting stepped on...etc. This should reduce the chaos although it also eliminates the verbal interactions between pilots and controllers which is one of the joys of VATSIM.

 

I have two questions. First, can more than one controller in an FIR use CPDLC and, if so, does the callsign have to be different? Second, how might this benefit controllers and pilots in non oceanic operations? Clearance delivery? Pireps?

 

Bob

 

1) Yes more than one controller in the FIR can use hoppies CPDLC. You are correct and you must use different login names so CYQX1 CYQX2.

2) It benefits the controller so in clearance delivery phase where aircraft can just get PDC and rather than cluttering the frequency reading back the whole clearance they can just say "Qantas 12, cleared Los Angeles, 16R, Sydney 3 Departure, Code 3367 on bay intl 9". Also they can give pireps for spot wind checks, high level turb etc without cluttering the frequency where more important things need to be said to non-equipped ACARS aircraft"Descend flight level whatever, star clearance whatever"

[James O Grady 904153]

Also with your remark about not using CPDLC on Oceanic. Why is this? In real life, if the aircraft is ACARS equipped which most are, they prefer to give their pos reports through CPDLC or other things that they want to request. I certainly would to . For example on transfer from Centre to Radio, "Qantas 17, identification lost, identification services terminated, continue with Brisbane on Datalink secondary 8867. Obviously on VATSIM you cant give a secondary HF frequence, but you can certainly use a VHF frequency and add Text only at the end of the transmission as you can not have 2 primary frequencies set.

 

I think he meant now instead of not lol.

[Jody Turner 1018734]

Silly typos.

[Johnathon Neilsen 955672]

Anchorage ARTCC will consider the use of such software. I'm sure we will implement it shortly.

[Robert Fersch]

 

1) Yes more than one controller in the FIR can use hoppies CPDLC. You are correct and you must use different login names so CYQX1 CYQX2.

2) It benefits the controller so in clearance delivery phase where aircraft can just get PDC and rather than cluttering the frequency reading back the whole clearance they can just say "Qantas 12, cleared Los Angeles, 16R, Sydney 3 Departure, Code 3367 on bay intl 9". Also they can give pireps for spot wind checks, high level turb etc without cluttering the frequency where more important things need to be said to non-equipped ACARS aircraft"Descend flight level whatever, star clearance whatever"

 

Thank you, James. I look forward to flying with ACARS/CPDLC and enjoying the benefits it affords to pilots and controllers.

 

All the best,

Bob

[Jody Turner 1018734]

Now my Gander Oceanic ATIS is:

 

Gander Radio

Phraseology here... http://www.vatsim-uk.org/oceanic/index.php

CPDLC available

 

I will certainly consider bringing this into the CZYZ FIR for use as PDC, and will continue using it as PDC and CPDLC for oceanic. Spread the word, that's the only way this can get better.

[Nehal Kanetkar 1068642]

I will certainly consider bringing this into the CZYZ FIR for use as PDC, and will continue using it as PDC and CPDLC for oceanic. Spread the word, that's the only way this can get better.

 

I can't wait to see it implemented in the CZYZ FIR.

 

Regards

Nehal

[James White]

Now my Gander Oceanic ATIS is:

 

Gander Radio

Phraseology here... http://www.vatsim-uk.org/oceanic/index.php

CPDLC available

 

I will certainly consider bringing this into the CZYZ FIR for use as PDC, and will continue using it as PDC and CPDLC for oceanic. Spread the word, that's the only way this can get better.

 

Hi Jody,

 

Just one suggestion. I suggest you put something along the lines of "CPDLC available login CYQX" just so the pilot knows what your login is, rather than going to look on the hoppie.nl website.

[Jody Turner 1018734]

Now my Gander Oceanic ATIS is:

 

Gander Radio

Phraseology here... http://www.vatsim-uk.org/oceanic/index.php

CPDLC available

 

I will certainly consider bringing this into the CZYZ FIR for use as PDC, and will continue using it as PDC and CPDLC for oceanic. Spread the word, that's the only way this can get better.

 

Hi Jody,

 

Just one suggestion. I suggest you put something along the lines of "CPDLC available login CYQX" just so the pilot knows what your login is, rather than going to look on the hoppie.nl website.

 

Haha yeah, just changed it, that makes sense.

[Daniel Hawton]

When I am on Gander Radio I plan on using it too. Should also help out with the CTP event.

[Alex Ramos 999218]

I've been test implementing this at KZAB (Albuquerque).... just need a plane to work it with lol

 

Ramos

[David Zhong]

Re: Login ID...

 

Others may have more info on this, but from my understanding, the real world system uses the FIR ID as the login ID. E.g. Melbourne FIR YMMM, Brisbane FIR YBBB, Gander CYQX. The actual messages are received by the ATC system which will show it to the appropriate controller (based on jurisdiction).

[Charan Kumar]

I've been test implementing this at KZAB (Albuquerque).... just need a plane to work it with lol

 

Ramos

Same here at ZOA!!

[Daniel Hawton]

Very interesting. I am going to add this capability to my aircraft. During my last "cross the Pond" I was able to make just one position report on oceanic. The frequencies are so congested, transmissions getting stepped on...etc. This should reduce the chaos although it also eliminates the verbal interactions between pilots and controllers which is one of the joys of VATSIM.

 

I have two questions. First, can more than one controller in an FIR use CPDLC and, if so, does the callsign have to be different? Second, how might this benefit controllers and pilots in non oceanic operations? Clearance delivery? Pireps?

 

Bob

 

1) Yes more than one controller in the FIR can use hoppies CPDLC. You are correct and you must use different login names so CYQX1 CYQX2.

2) It benefits the controller so in clearance delivery phase where aircraft can just get PDC and rather than cluttering the frequency reading back the whole clearance they can just say "Qantas 12, cleared Los Angeles, 16R, Sydney 3 Departure, Code 3367 on bay intl 9". Also they can give pireps for spot wind checks, high level turb etc without cluttering the frequency where more important things need to be said to non-equipped ACARS aircraft"Descend flight level whatever, star clearance whatever"

 

The pilot client only supports up to 4 characters on the ID... so CYQX1 and CYQX2 would not work..

[Dan Arsenault 949706]

Well I am not sure if I am doing something wrong, but I put CZQM_CTR as the user name and logged in with no issues. I received a message from SYS. I then sent a message to CZQM_CTR and within a minute i received that message.

 

I would think by this test that a person could put their complete callsign???

 

Dan

CZQM/CZQX Instructor

[Daniel Hawton]

Well I am not sure if I am doing something wrong, but I put CZQM_CTR as the user name and logged in with no issues. I received a message from SYS. I then sent a message to CZQM_CTR and within a minute i received that message.

 

I would think by this test that a person could put their complete callsign???

 

Dan

CZQM/CZQX Instructor

 

You can connect with the full call sign, but the pilot's client MCDU only accepts 4 characters so they'll never be able to connect to you..

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers 8114]

The new version works fine except in full screen mode. The icon is not visible but who cares

Well I do care... because this was why the icon got put in. Are you sure the icon shows when MSFS is in windowed mode and positively disappears when in full screen mode?

 

I tried with lots of other programs in full screen mode and they all leave the icon visible. Possibly the MSFS full screen mode is fuller then the others. Grr.

 

 

Jeroen

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers 8114]

You can connect with the full call sign, but the pilot's client MCDU only accepts 4 characters so they'll never be able to connect to you.

Correct (like real life CPDLC) and on top, no MCDU allows for the underscore _ sign as this is not part of the ARINC 739-A character set. The issues you get by sticking to real world standards...

 

Until now all controllers have fit in well, but if in a pinch I can of course relax the requirements a bit. The ground station programs (both Dispatch and ATC) are much less restricted, which indeed may give the false impression that unrestricted call signs do work.

 

CPDLC as delivered in the ACARSAIR program does implement controller handover. A controller can send a plane the message HANDOVER YMML (in the COMMS section of the message compiler) which will cause the plane to automatically transfer. The pilot does not get a notification, but (s)he can follow the process on the main ATC status page.

 

Given the particular virtual ATC environment, this feature may not yet be optimal. It has been closely modeled to reality, where CPDLC handover also goes unnoticed. However, in areas where a voice link needs to be maintained in parallel with CPDLC (such as the projected European upper airspace) the pilots must manually change VFH frequency while the CPDLC automatically switches (after the next controller has established voice contact).

 

 

Jeroen

[Erik Wachters]

I've been test implementing this at KZAB (Albuquerque).... just need a plane to work it with lol

 

Ramos

 

Probably I fly KSAN-KABQ today (around 1800Z) so we can test CPDLC if you come online!

 

Erik

[Daniel Hawton]

You can connect with the full call sign, but the pilot's client MCDU only accepts 4 characters so they'll never be able to connect to you.

Correct (like real life CPDLC) and on top, no MCDU allows for the underscore _ sign as this is not part of the ARINC 739-A character set. The issues you get by sticking to real world standards...

 

Until now all controllers have fit in well, but if in a pinch I can of course relax the requirements a bit. The ground station programs (both Dispatch and ATC) are much less restricted, which indeed may give the false impression that unrestricted call signs do work.

 

CPDLC as delivered in the ACARSAIR program does implement controller handover. A controller can send a plane the message HANDOVER YMML (in the COMMS section of the message compiler) which will cause the plane to automatically transfer. The pilot does not get a notification, but (s)he can follow the process on the main ATC status page.

 

Given the particular virtual ATC environment, this feature may not yet be optimal. It has been closely modeled to reality, where CPDLC handover also goes unnoticed. However, in areas where a voice link needs to be maintained in parallel with CPDLC (such as the projected European upper airspace) the pilots must manually change VFH frequency while the CPDLC automatically switches (after the next controller has established voice contact).

 

 

Jeroen

 

I was aiming it at people who recommended logging in as CYQX1 and CYQX2 for split CYQX airspaces and the like. As we really have no other way of dealing with split airspaces in this software, it might be better to relax those standards a little bit.

[Jonas Eberle]

I am going to try this on my next sessions on EDGG_CTR. You are invited to try it with me!

 

Although it adds in fact workload to the controller, I find it interesting and worth to support. When once integrated into EuroScope, it will not only be interesting but also helpful for the "normal CTR"

[Dan Arsenault 949706]

Ok, so it will only take 4 caracters on the pilot side. I was wondering what the big deal was about not being able to use our full callsign when it worked here.

 

As for CTP, if in use, something like like NATX, NATY, NATZ etc would work. But then again, what would the clearance channel be for those tracks?

 

If this is to be used widespread, someone will have to come up with dedicated "channels" so that someone in Canada is not using the same call sign as someone in Austria, etc. It would have to be adopted and posted by VATSIM.

 

CZQX is also the Gander domestic callsign so that would not be useful to be used for oceanic.

 

From what I can see of the program, it looks like it could serv its purpose, but you gotta be able to type fast if you are giving clearance to a potential 30+aircrafts in an hour.

 

Dan

CZQM/CZQX Intructor

[Ryan Geckler]

I'll volunteer to put together codes if people want it.

[Kirk Christie]

Honestly you can just pick 4 letters and stick it in, as long as you provide the log in via your controller info it doesn't really matter if they are not your call sign, thats more of a realism thing than any thing, you can choose the log in each time you use it.

 

heres a hint

 

CTP1

CTP2

ect

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers 8114]

From what I can see of the program, it looks like it could serv its purpose, but you gotta be able to type fast if you are giving clearance to a potential 30+aircrafts in an hour.

The controller CPDLC interface was designed with World Flight in mind -- way over 30 aircraft waiting for clearance. The "save as A, B, C" buttons cover this case. Type out ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]emble) your clearance once, then save it as "A". Next time you need the same clearance, call up "A", bump the squawk one up, save it, and send it out. Six key/mouse clicks at most.

 

Obviously I am open to suggestions on this type of operational issue. The interface is now a 99% copy of the TAAATS one, which does not mean it is useful

 

 

Jeroen