Application of Policies in VATUSA

[Lance Williams]

Ops..my bad Lance thought that second comment was triggered towards me. Sorry bout that!

 

Oh, not at all, lol.

[Terrell Jones 919286]

Just a couple of amendments, Lance:

 

...... he has been guilty of severe har[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ment of ARTCC staffers, including myself....

 

i would say i would have to agree with this..What a tread!!!! this has been going on since this morning ....not even sure if it is still about marc sykes losing his I-1 cause it looks like it changed

Edited January 2, 2006 at 05:18 AM by Guest

[Marc Sykes 852946]

I am not really taking any side here and have nothing against you Lance but honest question..How do you know what he was invited to and what he wasn't? Last I checked I didn't think you were working behind the scenes here.

 

[Mod: Gutteral reference removed. You are now skating on thin ice Mr. Sykes.]

[Lance Williams]

I am not really taking any side here and have nothing against you Lance but honest question..How do you know what he was invited to and what he wasn't? Last I checked I didn't think you were working behind the scenes here.

 

[Mod: Gutteral reference removed. You are now skating on thin ice Mr. Sykes.]

 

LOL! That ammunition is getting real low now Marc.

 

I was canned??? Let's ask Jeff about this statement??? My resignation was accepted after a 2-month stint after seeing the B.S. he had to put up with.

 

I'm glad I "Resigned."

[Marc Sykes 852946]

[MOD - No need for this] 800012 RJ

[Terrell Jones 919286]

Looks like EVERYONE left...lol.....what are yall talking(or arguing) about?...i usually just read in vatsim forums but i had to ask

Edited January 2, 2006 at 05:24 AM by Guest

[Lance Williams]

Marc,

 

Let's see... I submitted my resignation on my own free will. I wasn't asked to submit it and when I did submit my resignation, it was accepted reluctantly.

 

If you weren't in the 'Loop', that's because you refused to be a productive member as many have pointed out to you here.

[Marc Sykes 852946]

you refused to be a productive member as many have pointed out to you here.

 

Not many people. Just you, posting the same thing many times. Once for each of your personalities doesn't count.

[Lance Williams]

Not many people. Just you, posting the same thing many times. Once for each of your personalities doesn't count.

 

The rest of the VATUSA staff is staying out of this otherwise you'd hear it from many others as you already have via email. I don't even know why I continue to reply or even read your childish rantings here anymore though.

 

I think I'll go do something more productive and cut my toe nails.

[Pablo Norambuena 857610]

you refused to be a productive member as many have pointed out to you here.

 

Not many people. Just you, posting the same thing many times. Once for each of your personalities doesn't count.

 

The rest of the VATUSA staff is staying out of this otherwise you'd hear it from many others as you already have via email. [MOD - No need for this] 800012 RJ

I think I'll go do something more productive and cut my toe nails.

 

ANYTHING else you do BUT POST HERE is more productive

[Rey Lopez 883899]

you refused to be a productive member as many have pointed out to you here.

 

Not many people. Just you, posting the same thing many times. Once for each of your personalities doesn't count.

 

The rest of the VATUSA staff is staying out of this otherwise you'd hear it from many others as you already have via email. I don't even know why I continue to reply or even read your childish rantings here anymore though.

 

I think I'll go do something more productive and cut my toe nails.

 

ANYTHING else you do BUT POST HERE is more productive

 

agreed....

 

I'd have to say this is like firing your head coach to find another one after you win the superbowl 52-0 and had a 19-0 season

MS is the best "Coach" ZLA couldve asked for I NEVER saw a decrease in ATC professionalism, knowledge, OR ONLINE TIME in the past months at ZLA and i fly there A LOT this is wrong and is VATUSAs way of making changes just for that...too make changes...in chess you do not move just to move you move to try to place yourself in a better position without screwing the rest of your team...GJ VATUSA heh heh guess what you just did ???

[Jason Baxter 920557]

I tried not to get involved, I can't believe you guys spent a Sunday argueing over this when you could be controlling Like I was (not much traffic), I'll just say quote from VATUSA

 

Los Angeles strives toward realism, and the traffic they receive is a direct reflection of the quality of their ATC, as well as the programs they have set up for new students. The committee reports that Los Angeles ARTCC has an official training program in place, and new students are encouraged to join the training program to further their career. Their website offers local procedures and information pertaining to working positions within the Los Angeles ARTCC. Mentor/instructor email addresses are readily available to students for on the job training or tests. A mentor program is in place to guide new students through the basics, and get them up to speed with local procedures in LA. Los Angeles does not have direct links to the VATUSA Training Department’s website, but does provide links to training cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es available to LAX ARTCC students. The complexity of its airspace is 12.

Overall, Los Angeles has much to offer. The website is easy to navigate, and LA received high marks for their training material, and local material available to students. The airspace in Los Angeles can be a challenge to new students, and rating restrictions are in place to insure new students don’t get in over their head. Promotions at LAX require the p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing of the appropriate VATUSA test, as well as, the appropriate local knowledge test, and an over the shoulder checkride from an instructor. New students can expect to join the mentor program from day one, and are required to learn the local procedures of the ARTCC to achieve promotion. Through the training program, new students can expect to learn at a pace suitable to their liking, and can progress up the ladder provided they embrace the mentor training program in place.

 

I think the issue has been lost it seems this is a flame going nowhere, I'd love to see a lock,

But whats was getting fixed by canning MS? Why haven't the issues brought against Jeff? When is VATGOV going to get involved? It doesn't appear this is going anywhere

[Pablo Norambuena 857610]

Now Mr. Turner - I don't doubt that there is a policy somewhere out there which says a person must meet a minimum of 10 hours per month to retain their Instructor status

 

I think he meant to say that he requires time based on the Canadian Clock - 25 hours

[Carl Kendrick 863928]

A little off topic here, but in similar context - I wonder, if someone could help me translate something here for me.

 

What are the jobs of Air Traffic Managers and Chief's in context to what we have on VATUK?

 

Thanks

[Pablo Norambuena 857610]

A little off topic here, but in similar context - I wonder, if someone could help me translate something here for me.

 

What are the jobs of Air Traffic Managers and Chief's in context to what we have on VATUK?

 

Thanks

 

I can direct you to where this information is located:

 

http://www.vatusa.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=PN_Content&file=index&req=visit&artid=44#artccATM

[Christopher Waldo 860237]

With Marc as ATM, ZLA was a power house never achieved in repect with any other ARTCC (arguably) but in my mind true. With website and office duties, many hours are spent with prtty roster updates and such. But do we count those hours???? I mean come on 7 hours plus the proabably 50 plus hours working on the website etc etc adds up the (guestimate) more than half the controllers on the darn VATUSA roster.

 

Also,

If my title was VATUSA1, Marc would have been gone much sooner.

[MOD - No need for this] 800012 RJ

 

Lance, just let things go, you have always been the outside duckling looking for change (remember AVA?). I have been around this community for at least 3 years, and the best thing I have seen is when people discuss issues. When people react without consiling others, battles and nothing gets done. So, why go political and ripple the tides, when things are good (especialy in ZLA's case) do as the BEATLES say:

Just let it be!

Edited January 2, 2006 at 06:49 AM by Guest

[Christopher Waldo 860237]

I would also like to put up the idea of relooking at the current VATUSA admin's. Is it time for a staff change from overhead?

Maybe a vote at this years convention for election of new officials?

[Jim Thompson 860791]

[Mod: Linked image removed. Posting images with offensive words in them is prohibited by the VATSIM Code of Conduct. If you do this again Mr. Thompson, your next post will be your last on these forums].

[Nicholas Fredrich 827138]

This picture has been removed as it is offensive, and insults people wtih disabilities. If it is reposted the whole post will be deleted and the poster liable to disciplinary action. (Ruth McTighe VATGOV7)

 

I did edit this post when I realized how immature and stupid it was.. I should have never submitted it.. I have since emailed an apology to the two people I directed insults towards, and I also have made a Public Apology to all of those who saw the post

Edited January 3, 2006 at 07:38 AM by Guest

[Ruth McTighe 824054]

When is VATGOV going to get involved? It doesn't appear this is going anywhere

 

Dont hold your breath.... they have never came to the aid of conflicts within ARTCCs I experianced this first hand. I would have to say the entire divison would have to be screwed before they step in

 

The Board of Governors does not intervene directly in internal conflicts. There is a formal structure in VATSIM through the Divisions to the Regions to the Eecutive Committee, and if you feel it necessary you should utilise that.

 

That is not to say that the Govenors do not view this matter with concern or will be ignoring the matter. However a public forum is not the place for the BoG to be getting involved.

 

Ruth McTighe

VP Communications

[Matthew Kramer]

[EDIT]Changed my mind. Please ignor this post.

[Stephen Sculley-Beaman]

Would it be best for the vatsimer's to decide if Marc should retain his position? Obviously many are questioning Mr. Turner's decision, and its only fair. This is a community, and we should be able to vote on something like this if it comes up. here's a little idea that came to mind:

 

If Vatsimer's of the North America Region and United States division petition a decision by VATUSA staff and have a great response, a vote should be permitted to make the final decision on the matter. One voice should not be the only one to make vital decisions in our community, and we as VATUSA members should take part in the decision making process to represent what we feel is best for us.

[Scott Lansing 953481]

Would it be best for the vatsimer's to decide if Marc should retain his position? Obviously many are questioning Mr. Turner's decision, and its only fair. This is a community, and we should be able to vote on something like this if it comes up. here's a little idea that came to mind:

 

If Vatsimer's of the North America Region and United States division petition a decision by VATUSA staff and have a great response, a vote should be permitted to make the final decision on the matter. One voice should not be the only one to make vital decisions in our community, and we as VATUSA members should take part in the decision making process to represent what we feel is best for us.

 

First of all, this isn't student congress at your local middle school. It isn't a popularity contest. So in short, no.

 

These people are in positions and delegated to make VATUSA better as a whole. The organization doesn't exist for for any one individual regardless of how well-liked he or she is. You need to understand that there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of members of this organization - and probably 99% who could care less about a guy getting his feelings hurt because he was demoted from instructor to controller.

 

I think it was mentioned earlier that this was a decision was made by several persons, not solely Jeff Turner. And say what you will about Turner, but great leaders aren't afraid to make unpopular decisions.

 

The only real issue here is that some folks in the ZLA have made a personnel issue a personal issue. Shame on them.

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

When is VATGOV going to get involved? It doesn't appear this is going anywhere

 

Dont hold your breath.... they have never came to the aid of conflicts within ARTCCs I experianced this first hand. I would have to say the entire divison would have to be screwed before they step in

 

The Board of Governors does not intervene directly in internal conflicts. There is a formal structure in VATSIM through the Divisions to the Regions to the Eecutive Committee, and if you feel it necessary you should utilise that.

 

That is not to say that the Govenors do not view this matter with concern or will be ignoring the matter. However a public forum is not the place for the BoG to be getting involved.

 

Ruth McTighe

VP Communications

 

Maybe it's time for a policy change then... because to me this thread is fast becoming an absolute embarr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ment to VATSIM, not just VATUSA. Take a look at the views - over 6000 (as of Jan. 2nd, 10:30am EST) - and 10 pages in under 24 hours. Look at the magnitude this has been escalating by! It's becoming a almost chaotic, with members slinging mud across the board! If this isn't something that merits the VATGOV's intervention, and even more specifically Mr. Jenkins, then please show me what is!?

[Stephen Sculley-Beaman]

Would it be best for the vatsimer's to decide if Marc should retain his position? Obviously many are questioning Mr. Turner's decision, and its only fair. This is a community, and we should be able to vote on something like this if it comes up. here's a little idea that came to mind:

 

If Vatsimer's of the North America Region and United States division petition a decision by VATUSA staff and have a great response, a vote should be permitted to make the final decision on the matter. One voice should not be the only one to make vital decisions in our community, and we as VATUSA members should take part in the decision making process to represent what we feel is best for us.

 

First of all, this isn't student congress at your local middle school. It isn't a popularity contest. So in short, no.

 

These people are in positions and delegated to make VATUSA better as a whole. The organization doesn't exist for for any one individual regardless of how well-liked he or she is. You need to understand that there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of members of this organization - and probably 99% who could care less about a guy getting his feelings hurt because he was demoted from instructor to controller.

 

I think it was mentioned earlier that this was a decision was made by several persons, not solely Jeff Turner. And say what you will about Turner, but great leaders aren't afraid to make unpopular decisions.

 

The only real issue here is that some folks in the ZLA have made a personnel issue a personal issue. Shame on them.

 

First off, Get your facts straight. I realize this and I'm not against Mr. Turner, however, I feel we should have more input. If you had actually read the rest of this thread, you may have seen my other posts. I don't know the reasons for why Marc was fired. I do know that the removal of his rank was fair.