Weather Radar possible?

[Mark Wolpert]

We have seen now that PMDG has been able to use ASN to show a very good weather radar on their 777. I just wonder if this same method can be used in ES to bring weather radar to our scopes. The implementation of radar on the scope and in the aircraft would really add a lot to the Vatsim environment if this could be done.

[Eric Bocaneanu 906549]

Just my 2 cents. The problem that aircraft developers have had to face to bring a realistic weather radar to FSX does not apply to the kind of weather radar used on radar software. The problem faces there was mainly about a realistic 3D model for precipitation so the position of the aircraft relative to the precipitation was able to be seen properly by the radar return and the tilt to work properly. This does not apply to the top-down kind of radar that is shown on radar screens around the world. It is a fixed, or animated image but with no tilt function and the radar station is in a fixed position.

 

There is however a problem. ASN creates a proper weather model for radar but it does not sync it between all clients. So a weather cell may be in a place in one simulator while in another it may be 10 miles north and lighter. So in that way the radar couldn't help controller any to estimate deviations because what he would see would not be the same to what each pilots sees, because every pilots sees something different and will be deviating differently.

[Mark Wolpert]

Interesting observations Eric. I would have thought ASN in live mode is sending the same data to all clients on the network.

[Eric Bocaneanu 906549]

I may be wrong, so if you can check this with HiFi and confirm whether it is true or not it would be useful to know. As far as I know, all weather software, including ASN use METAR only to generate weather, and from that it generates TS/CB clouds in the area of the METAR station. If by any chance ASN now communicates actual cloud data from the server (which is doubtful) that would be incredible for VATSIM use. Let me know if you find anything.

[Kyprianos Biris]

Well I asked in the HiFi forum and this is the discussion in progress.

http://www.hifitechinc.com/forums/showthread.php?3976-ASN-Same-location-and-time-of-WX-phenomena-in-all-clients&p=20867

Members without a login ID (no need to be client to issue one) cannot access the discussion.

I will post here the final response from the developer.

[Kyprianos Biris]

My question to HiFi:

In Live weather mode and provided each user updates regularly, are the weather phenomena depicted in the same location in real time inside FSX/P3D ?

 

Example, aircraft A flies same track with aircraft B at same (real) time and both use ASN with same weather settings Live on the Internet.

 

Aircraft A enters a storm cell, precipitation, low visibility, whatever, at point X.

 

Will aircraft B that flies at same point X in same real time enter the same weather phenomenon same as aircraft B ?

 

The question is mostly related to on line flying (VATSIM/IVAO) and how on line pilots who are close together get the same detailed weather features while flying.

 

I am asking this info. so that, if the answer is "Yes", the on line ATC Radar developer(s) get probed for potential interest in ASN integration just like aircraft developers.

 

Virtual ATCo's using the Radar software and as pilots own ASN could possibly then interface ASN with weather feed in to their radar scopes and get weather (that ASN on line flying pilots will face) displayed in their radar just like in real systems.

 

The answer from developer:

Hi,

 

short answer is... yes and no As Vic said most of the important things (based on "raw weather data") will be in sync, but many details will not be (that have an inherent random nature): These include e.g. the exact position of a cloud (since a slightly different cloud model may be selected) or the placement of a wind shear hazard may not be exactly the same (in some cases it may be in the extended runway center line, in others not) etc

 

But, important things (QNH, winds, surface visibility etc) will be in sync. Things are more prone to be out of sync if the airfield does not have valid data and relies on interpolation. Of course flying online makes this a non issue.

 

In general, we never designed ASN for such functionality and in some cases it may be suboptimal (only testing it will tell). Moving forward, we may implement a more explicit way of serialising and syncing data (that may also serve multiple PC sim configs).

 

They can always read the data ASN already exports for integration with flight planners, aircrafts etc.

 

Kostas Terzides

Lead Programmer

 

These are some pic's for reference that I collected:

 

From real radar (source)

 

What PMDG has done with the 777 ND (Navigation Display) and ASN integration:

 

 

 

So it looks like its up to Euroscope developers to decide and get in contact or not with the ASN team.

Gergely & team if you want the pvt email of the developer let me know.

 

For sure it looks like it is doable according to ASN developer.

You will not look at the exact cell where FSX pilot sees it in an accuracy of say 1nm but it will indicate you accurately the areas where FSX/P3D pop up moderate precipitation or thunderstorms from the ASN feed with an accuracy/discrepancy of say 5 +/-5 nm from client to client. This is what I have observed when on multiplay with other FSX pilots who have same ASN set up on live weather. Usually we get the same weather is same location but the actual cloud you enter in to may differ ~5nm or so from one client to another since ASN sets WEATHER THEMES in specific areas and then each FSX generates its clouds within those WEATHER THEME area.

 

The Eursocope scenario of ASN usage should be for the controller to own ASN as prerequisite and then instead of using it only for FSX/P3D to use it also to feed his Euroscope with WX image in his location of ATC just like in the PMDG's ND in the location of flight.

[Kyprianos Biris]

I'm reviving here an old question.

 

Dear Gergely could the above be a feature of a future Euroscope update

 

Nowadays most of the "advanced" Flight Simulator aircraft add on's have weather radar feeds in their Navigation Display directly from Active Sky precipitation data or via simulator's cloud data (which is very close to Active Sky data since all come from real world current weather with a small delay to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and propagate through the Internet).

 

It would be so nice for ATCO's to have a similar precipitation image updating every once in a while if they choose so in their ATC radar.

 

This VIDEO shows what I am talking about !

[Kyprianos Biris]

Well it took some three years since my last post on the subject but, finally! now we do have the ability of some basic display of precipitation in Euroscope via the TopSky plugin.

 

Kudos to the team!

 

 

[Mark Doyle]

How do you enable the weather radar in TopSky? @Kyprianos Biris Looks great

[Kyprianos Biris]

https://vatsim-scandinavia.org/forums/forum/54-plugins/

You install and load the plugin in Euroscope for Standard ES Screen.

Euroscope --> OTHER SET --> Plug-ins--> and load it to the --> Standard ES Radar Screen

For enabling it go to the SETUP list, left in the top grey bar of TopSky you enable the display of precipitation via Setup-->Weather Map.

Remember, its not clouds but only precipitation where weather radar gets returns from it. Its data source is https://www.rainviewer.com/

My settings:

TopSky-> Setup -> Weather Map

Brightness 20%
Gain 100%

In TopSkySettings.txt i have :

WXR_Echo_dBZ_Hi=20
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Med=15
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Lo=12

For RDF plugin I don't use TopSky's built in RDF but the standalone RDF plugin. To avoid conflict you set RDF_Mode=-1 in TopSky settings.

Edited April 16, 2020 at 05:37 AM by Kyprianos Biris

[Kyprianos Biris]

@Mark Doyle

and some notes on add on's

TopSky plugin  https://forum.vatsim-scandinavia.org/forum/54-plugins/

I run it in Euroscope beta v3.2.1.2 ( Euroscope beta https://www.euroscope.hu/wp/category/beta-release/ )

because the standalone RDF plugin https://github.com/chembergj/RDF was crashing in later Euroscope beta's.

[Mark Doyle]

Thanks very much, that's brilliant, I will give the weather radar a try with your settings for sure. We all use TopSky plugin at my vAcc, it's fantastic 👍Thanks again

[Kyprianos Biris]

Thanks, @Mark Doyle by all means, if you see something I can/could have done better, let me know, since I went by trial and error in managing this setup and I'm not an expert !

[Mark Doyle]

Sure @Kyprianos Biris, I haven't gotten it set up yet because "Weather Map" is greyed out (can't click on it) in TopSky setup menu for me. But when I do, I will let you know if I get it working any better

[Frederick Arisandi]

On 4/16/2020 at 7:16 AM, Kyprianos Biris said:

https://vatsim-scandinavia.org/forums/forum/54-plugins/

You install and load the plugin in Euroscope for Standard ES Screen.

Euroscope --> OTHER SET --> Plug-ins--> and load it to the --> Standard ES Radar Screen

For enabling it go to the SETUP list, left in the top grey bar of TopSky you enable the display of precipitation via Setup-->Weather Map.

Remember, its not clouds but only precipitation where weather radar gets returns from it. Its data source is https://www.rainviewer.com/

My settings:

TopSky-> Setup -> Weather Map

Brightness 20%
Gain 100%

In TopSkySettings.txt i have :

WXR_Echo_dBZ_Hi=20
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Med=15
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Lo=12

For RDF plugin I don't use TopSky's built in RDF but the standalone RDF plugin. To avoid conflict you set RDF_Mode=-1 in TopSky settings.

Hii,

how do you setup the WXR_Server, _Page_Prefix and the Page_Suffix? Thanks

[Kyprianos Biris]

@Frederick Arisandi Where are  WXR_Server, Page_Prefix and Page_Suffix  ?

I couldn't find them.

 

My settings below but I have not tweaked much except

• the RDF_Mode=-1 to disable TopSky's RDF and use the other and
• the WXR data to fit my geographic area and colors intensity etc.

They are in folder ...\PlugInEnvironment\TopSky

 

TopSkySettings.txt

 

Setup=SE
RDF_Mode=-1

RwyAppLines_Length=0
RwyAppLines_Markers=0
RwyAppLines_MarkerSpacing=0
RwyAppLines_Auto=0
    
System_MetricUnits=0
System_QFE=0
System_TrueColorMode=0
System_UseReportedGS=0
System_TransferConfirmation=0
System_UseMouseWheel=0
System_FPASD=0
System_LocalCSfirst=0
System_MagModel_Type=2
System_MagModel_Model=0
System_RepHdg_Correction=0

Color_Track_Default=0,0,255

 

AIW=0

 

Color_Weather_Map=207,128,238

MSAW=0
MSAW_VFR=0
MSAW_Buffer_VFR=0

APW=0
APW_VFR=0

 

Track_PredictionLine=0
Track_PredictionLine_Max=20
Track_HistoryDots=0
Track_HistoryDots_Max=0
Track_PSR_Filter_GS=60

 

WXR_Latitude=26
WXR_Latitude_Max=43
WXR_Latitude_Min=31
WXR_Longitude=17.8
WXR_Longitude_Max=37
WXR_Longitude_Min=15
WXR_Brightness=20
WXR_Gain=85
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Hi=20
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Med=15
WXR_Echo_dBZ_Lo=12

 

Shortcut_RadarMenu_Combo=0x00

FlightLeg_FontSize=0

FlightLeg_AutoShow=0

 

TopSkySymbols.txt

 

//Coasting track symbol
SYMBOL:RPSC
MOVETO:-3:-3
LINETO:4:4
MOVETO:3:-3
LINETO:-4:4
MOVETO:0:-4
LINETO:0:5
MOVETO:-4:0
LINETO:5:0

//Radar position symbol for PSR tracks
SYMBOL:RPS1
MOVETO:-3:-3
LINETO:3:-3
LINETO:3:3
LINETO:-:3
LINETO:-3:-3
MOVETO:-2:-2
LINETO:3:3
MOVETO:2:-2
LINETO:-3:3

//Radar position symbol for SSR(A) tracks
SYMBOL:RPS2
MOVETO:-3:-3
LINETO:3:-3
LINETO:3:3
LINETO:-3:3
LINETO:-3:-3
MOVETO:-2:-2
LINETO:3:3
MOVETO:2:-2
LINETO:-3:3

//Radar position symbol for SSR(A) tracks with ident
SYMBOL:RPS2I
MOVETO:-3:-3
LINETO:3:-3
LINETO:3:3
LINETO:-3:3
LINETO:-3:-3
MOVETO:-2:-2
LINETO:3:3
MOVETO:2:-2
LINETO:-3:3

//Radar position symbol for PSR+SSR(A) tracks
SYMBOL:RPS3
SETPIXEL:0:0
MOVETO:-3:-3
LINETO:3:-3
LINETO:3:3
LINETO:-3:3
LINETO:-3:-3
MOVETO:-2:-2
LINETO:3:3
MOVETO:2:-2
LINETO:-3:3

//Radar position symbol for PSR+SSR(A) tracks with ident
SYMBOL:RPS3I
SETPIXEL:0:0
SETPIXEL:0:0
MOVETO:-3:-3
LINETO:3:-3
LINETO:3:3
LINETO:-3:3
LINETO:-3:-3
MOVETO:-2:-2
LINETO:3:3
MOVETO:2:-2
LINETO:-3:3

 

 

[Frederick Arisandi]

@Kyprianos Biris

at the developer guide settings excel file, the default value for  WXR_Server, Page_Prefix and Page_Suffix are blank. I thought , I need to manualy set it up. I'm using the version 2.2.1 beta 11.

I will try to use your WXR setting, thanks.

[Kyprianos Biris]

I hadn't realized it was recently updated. Thanks.

I just updated it to 2.2.1 beta 11, did not change any settings and it seems to work fine.

[Frederick Arisandi]

I just try it again, its worked now. Thanks! 

[Dillen Weerasinghe]

Is there a different API that i can use, weather radar doesn't show the correct data for my region.

Edited March 1, 2021 at 10:52 AM by Dillen Weerasinghe

[Norberto Padin]

On 4/16/2020 at 8:13 AM, Mark Doyle said:

Sure @Kyprianos Biris, I haven't gotten it set up yet because "Weather Map" is greyed out (can't click on it) in TopSky setup menu for me. But when I do, I will let you know if I get it working any better

Hi all, I'm in the same boat, "Weather Map"is grayed out, how did you fix this?

I installed the latest ES beta with TopSky 2.4b and also using Ground Radar v1.5b2 and Holding List v1.0.

Any hint on enabling the weather map will be appreciated.

Regards,

Nor.