vPilot - need testers for shared cockpit (observer) mode

[Ross Carlson]

I did the first test flight today, I was connected as OBS on a networked setup.

 

Everything worked like a charm, except the jerky movement of the one online traffic we had at the departure airport, while he was taxing to the gate. It looked like the jerky movement we had back on the initial release, when we were running vPilot on a networked, remote computer.

 

Overall, great work Ross, thank you very much!

 

Thanks for the feedback, however ... using vPilot in observer mode would have no effect on the smooth movement of traffic. Are you still using vPilot in a networked configuration? If so, make sure you install the latest version on BOTH computers. Both the main vPilot app and the TrafficProxy need to be running the same version.

[Panagiotis Konstantinidis]

Hello Ross, I'm running version 1.1.5587.30908 on both computers.

Sometimes I'm using only one computer ( when my son hijacks the cockpit ) and sometimes I'm using both, networked.

 

The fact is we met only one aircraft during our test, so it may be random after all. I didn't had the chance to observe more online traffic. Maybe it was network lag on the remote pilot end, maybe it was lag on my end. Next week I'll do more experiments, no free time at all until then

 

EDIT: Well, thinking of it again, I may forgot to start the TrafficProxy on the FSX computer and maybe that's the reason for the induced jerky movement (pre - TrafficProxy, as described above). I'm not sure yet, but probably it was my mistake after all

[Magnus Meese]

The only problem I can find is that the observer gets a syntax error when he tries to transmit via text, and the message won't be transmitted. Not a huge flaw, since you can just make sure the PF is connected as observer, so the PNF can take care of text coms (unicom).

 

Otherwise a job very well done on the update, it's super to have continous expansion of the software capability

[Ross Carlson]

The only problem I can find is that the observer gets a syntax error when he tries to transmit via text, and the message won't be transmitted. Not a huge flaw, since you can just make sure the PF is connected as observer, so the PNF can take care of text coms (unicom).

 

Yeah, VATSIM servers do not accept text radio transmissions from observer connections. I'll update vPilot so that it shows a more meaningful message instead of the syntax error. Thanks.

[Magnus Meese]

Oh right, I even remember when they changed that, when I think about it

[Josh Glottmann]

Yeah, VATSIM servers do not accept text radio transmissions from observer connections.

 

Is there any way you could force the observer to send a message to the non-observer formatted similaryly to the override command in VRC then having them send the message on frequency?

 

AAL446A (OBS) transmits on frequency. The actualy transmission is cancelled but instead a message is sent to AAL446 saying: "*** [message]". This could maybe force AAL446 to transmit on frequency saying "[message]"

 

Maybe this is too compliacted to do

[Bradley Grafelman]

Would also prop the door wide open for troublemakers who randomly sign in as "observer" callsigns and start overriding you and/or masquerading as you on comms.

 

Plus, if you're going so far into the realism as to add shared cockpits, hopefully you'll be avoiding text communications if at all possible, too.

[Ross Carlson]

Yeah, VATSIM servers do not accept text radio transmissions from observer connections.

 

Is there any way you could force the observer to send a message to the non-observer formatted similaryly to the override command in VRC then having them send the message on frequency?

 

AAL446A (OBS) transmits on frequency. The actualy transmission is cancelled but instead a message is sent to AAL446 saying: "*** [message]". This could maybe force AAL446 to transmit on frequency saying "[message]"

 

Maybe this is too compliacted to do

 

I had the same exact thought when I first read Magnus' post, but I think there's something fundamentally wrong with creating a feature whereby one user can take action on the network using another user's account.

 

I think perhaps the right way to handle this is to introduce some changes to VATSIM's network architecture that are specifically designed for shared cockpit operations. Obviously that's much easier said than done, but not outside the realm of possibility.

[Ricardo Santos 1108947]

Hello Ross,

 

Works perfect;)

 

Did some communication test´s and works like a charm. Wonderfull job i must say

 

Thanks

 

Best regards

[Pierre Ferran]

Ross, It works like a charm, nothing else to report, it's perfect!

 

Thanks.

[Joseph Goodall 1304328]

works absolutely fine, thank god I don't have to us FSInn

[Ricardo Santos 1108947]

Ross,

 

Is there any possibility to remove the shadow aircraft when both pilots are online, using the observer feature?

 

Thanks

[Ross Carlson]

Is there any possibility to remove the shadow aircraft when both pilots are online, using the observer feature?

 

Are you saying both pilots are connected as observer? Why would you do that?

[Ricardo Santos 1108947]

Negative. only one as obs and the other with a normal conn (forgot to mention that).

[Ross Carlson]

Negative. only one as obs and the other with a normal conn (forgot to mention that).

 

Then it should already be removing the shadow aircraft, provided you followed the instructions for how to choose your callsigns.

[Ricardo Santos 1108947]

Problem solved :S

My PNF was adding on the VPilot the flight number adding a A on the end, instead of the callsign.

 

Best regards.

[Luiz Silveira 1080618]

Hi there,

 

Firstly, great job with vPilot! I've been using it for a while and love it.

 

Pardon if my question is a bit stupid but I'm borderline IT-handicapped: Is there a way for a second person/computer to connect without having FSX installed on the second machine?

 

My idea came from the possibility of connecting via network with simconnect. Would it be possible to connect the main FSX computer with the "normal callsign" and then a network computer with the observer callsign? In this way only one would fly the aircraft but both could handle comms.

 

Thanks!

[Bradley Grafelman]

Would it be possible to connect the main FSX computer with the "normal callsign" and then a network computer with the observer callsign? In this way only one would fly the aircraft but both could handle comms.

Given that you can't have multiple connections to VATSIM and that observers aren't allowed to transmit... I'd say your idea is pretty much dead in the water just from a VATSIM network standpoint, let alone considering that the setup you're describing doesn't seem very common at all.

[Luiz Silveira 1080618]

Given that you can't have multiple connections to VATSIM and that observers aren't allowed to transmit... I'd say your idea is pretty much dead in the water just from a VATSIM network standpoint, let alone considering that the setup you're describing doesn't seem very common at all.

 

Yeah, I can imagine the setup isn't common. I was just wondering if there would be a workaround to get it to work. I thought it wouldn't be against the rules though, as it wouldn't be multiple connections of the same user if there's more than one user.

 

Thanks for clarifying it and for the very quick response!

[Ross Carlson]

Observers can't transmit on text, but they can transmit on voice.

 

What you're proposing actually wouldn't be too hard to implement. The only reason it wouldn't work with vPilot as it stands today is the fact that both copies of vPilot would be injecting traffic into the same single instance of FSX, so every aircraft would have a duplicate. I could make a simple change to vPilot to allow one of the pilots to turn off the injecting of traffic.

 

Though I agree that this must be a very rare use case ... it wouldn't be much fun for the one guy that does nothing but talk on the radio.

[Mike Freeman 928875]

Hello All,

 

Great work on the latest beta - shared cockpit working really well in my VA on the A320.

 

Really well that is - until this happened tonight

 

--

 

[21:25:22] SUP: Hi Michael, my name is [removed]I am VATSIM supervisor

 

[21:25:25] SUP: Are you there?

 

[21:25:39] BAW0472A: hello sir, im here

 

[21:26:05] SUP: sorry, we are verifying that the connection is not neglected!

 

[21:26:14] BAW0472A: with baw0472, in shared cockpit

 

[21:33:33] SUP: I remind you that the OBS option is only to be used as aerial observer of control!

 

[21:33:47] SUP: not for use as a shared cabin!

[21:34:35] BAW0472A: ok sir, can you advise how we operaate a shared cockpit please?

 

[21:35:46] BAW0472A: weve done a lot of research, and using the shared cockpit observer mode in vpilot. if we both connect as pilots our tcas goes wild and atc has 2x radar signatures.

 

[21:36:21] SUP: I can not tell you how to do it because I've never done!

 

[21:37:13] SUP: but the way you are doing it is lacking the code of conduct C.3

 

[21:38:21] BAW0472A: can i suggesst you take this up with vpilot sir? im not sre what to suggest.

 

[21:39:30] SUP: I can suggest you investigate in some forum! OBS because of the way is not right. As the word says OBS ... you are not looking!

 

[21:41:47] BAW0472A: sir, i have used the observer feature having read the forums. im committed to getting this right, and im not sure i appreciate your approach on taking me to task over it.

 

[21:42:34] SUP: I remind you again that the OBS indicator should be used only as an observer as indicated by the code of conduct vatsim

 

[21:43:15] BAW0472A: thank you for all your help

 

--

 

We've put a lot of work into getting this right for our VA, and I've written all sorts of technical guidance for our pilots.

 

Has anyone got any advice on this observer mode? Having checked the code of conduct C3 (cited by the useful supervisor fellow above) - it refers to prohibition of ATC as an observer, not aircraft operation.

 

I'm now going outside to kick a lampost. It might hurt a bit.

 

[Names removed - GL 967365]

Edited May 28, 2015 at 09:50 AM by Guest

[Bradley Grafelman]

Sounds like some SUP education is in order.

 

(... or the creation of a new connection type which, quite frankly, might be the easier of the two options. )

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

you can send a copy of that to VP Sups, he'll make sure his supervisors know the difference between actual observers who are using the ATC client to watch traffic, and those in observer mode via the pilot clients.

 

and yes i also agree, the tact used by said sup needs work especially when you asked for information and he failed to respond accordingly, definitely needs work. thats not how they should be conducting themselves

[Chad Vienna 1195499]

[21:39:30] SUP: I can suggest you investigate in some forum! OBS because of the way is not right. As the word says OBS ... you are not looking!

 

At which point you could have responded:

 

"I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you sir that I am indeed "looking".. As BAW472 has been snoring in his seat beside me for past 2000 miles..."

 

'might've actually been worth a possible temporary suspension.

 

Seriously; You handled that with great professionalism and more than a little restraint.

[Josh Glottmann]

This guy....

Great job on your end!

 

Looks like someone needs a refresher :roll: :roll: