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Questions about the new FNO operations


Marko Savatic 825464
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Now this post will most likely get me some nasty posts back, but...

 

But for a new vatsim member to be at the top of the food chain only after 2 months makes me think that something really weird went on.

 

 

Well this might get me a bad post from some people. But the reason i think she got the job is probably because she does an outstanding job at coordinating events. This goes out to all the people who are questioning Karen's position, If you are not willing to actually do or help do something good and productive for the vatsim community (Like Karen has), and all you do is complain and have no actions, than just let the people that are willing to help do there thing. Please stop trying to secretly put karen in the bad side of every vatusa member as the only thing she is trying to do for all of us is make our time online more enjoyable. If you are not willing to help the community, then lay back and stop whining.

-=-=-=-=-=E-MAN=-=-=-=-=-

Emmanuel Gutierrez (972888)

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Now this post will most likely get me some nasty posts back, but...

 

But for a new vatsim member to be at the top of the food chain only after 2 months makes me think that something really weird went on.

 

 

Well this might get me a bad post from some people. But the reason i think she got the job is probably because she does an outstanding job at coordinating events. This goes out to all the people who are questioning Karen's position, If you are not willing to actually do or help do something good and productive for the vatsim community (Like Karen has), and all you do is complain and have no actions, than just let the people that are willing to help do there thing. Please stop trying to secretly put karen in the bad side of every vatusa member as the only thing she is trying to do for all of us is make our time online more enjoyable. If you are not willing to help the community, then lay back and stop whining.

 

Amen!

 

Scott, remember, if they are working together you are bound to get traffic between the ARTCCs. Although I agree that ZTL may get more traffic than ZME in that scenario, you have to remember, it doesn't mean ZME won't get a lot of traffic. I figure they will get more than normal because a more popular ARTCC is working with them. (this was not meant to be mean to any ARTCC like ZME )

 

JM

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How about we just let it go? If you all just remember that the purpose of VATSIM is to have fun (and not act like an unorganized government), then everyone will be happy. If you want FNO back, talk to your Air Traffic Managers and I'm sure they'll be willing to schedule one for your ARTCC. People will love this event, as they can go from Denver to Atlanta without "Monitor UNICOM on 122.8. Radar service terminated."

 

VATSIM is all volunteer work and the volunteers work very hard to make this a realistic environment. If you don't like VATSIM anymore, there's always FSX Multiplayer

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How about we just let it go? If you all just remember that the purpose of VATSIM is to have fun (and not act like an unorganized government), then everyone will be happy. If you want FNO back, talk to your Air Traffic Managers and I'm sure they'll be willing to schedule one for your ARTCC. People will love this event, as they can go from Denver to Atlanta without "Monitor UNICOM on 122.8. Radar service terminated."

 

VATSIM is all volunteer work and the volunteers work very hard to make this a realistic environment. If you don't like VATSIM anymore, there's always FSX Multiplayer

 

AMEN! (Gosh i have said this a lot lately )

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Now this post will most likely get me some nasty posts back, but...

 

But for a new vatsim member to be at the top of the food chain only after 2 months makes me think that something really weird went on.

 

Dennis' predecessor hired her, why don't you ask him what underhanded scheme he was pulling off when he did. Karen has been one of the more active Events Coord's VATUSA has had, in a long line of great Coord's.

Edited by Guest

Kyle Ramsey

 

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Now this post will most likely get me some nasty posts back, but...

 

But for a new vatsim member to be at the top of the food chain only after 2 months makes me think that something really weird went on.

 

 

Well this might get me a bad post from some people. But the reason i think she got the job is probably because she does an outstanding job at coordinating events. This goes out to all the people who are questioning Karen's position, If you are not willing to actually do or help do something good and productive for the vatsim community (Like Karen has), and all you do is complain and have no actions, than just let the people that are willing to help do there thing. Please stop trying to secretly put karen in the bad side of every vatusa member as the only thing she is trying to do for all of us is make our time online more enjoyable. If you are not willing to help the community, then lay back and stop whining.

 

Amen!

 

Scott, remember, if they are working together you are bound to get traffic between the ARTCCs. Although I agree that ZTL may get more traffic than ZME in that scenario, you have to remember, it doesn't mean ZME won't get a lot of traffic. I figure they will get more than normal because a more popular ARTCC is working with them. (this was not meant to be mean to any ARTCC like ZME )

 

JM

 

The point Scott is trying to make is they still wont get the traffic they would get if they had their own FNO.

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Brandon,

 

I understand everyones concern, and I can't tell you whether that is true or not, however, I can tell you I will know afte4r the 7th. I think eveyone should just wait until the 7th before they start truly judging the event and forming their own harsh opinions.

 

my $0.02

 

JM

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Theres no reason to wait.

 

Remember what I just said isn't my opinion, its FACT.

 

Hire a better events coordinator. Get off your rear and actually plan an event instead of sitting around and complaining, right? Don't judge the event until it has actually taken place and don't take cheap shots at Karen. She took a job (volunteered I should say) and is doing an amazing job, maybe get to know her before throwing insults around?

 

Remember this is a hobby and that having keyboard wars is not only immature, but pointless. Just let the event happen and then see for yourself if it is what you want. Keep in mind that FNO attracts about 100-200 pilots. That isn't even close to the number of members we have on the network. Branching out and exploring new ideas is the key to success.

Alex Bailey

ZMA I-1

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Now this post will most likely get me some nasty posts back, but...

 

But for a new vatsim member to be at the top of the food chain only after 2 months makes me think that something really weird went on.

 

Dennis' predecessor hired her, why don't you ask him what underhanded scheme he was pulling off when he did. Karen has been one of the more active Events Coord's VATUSA has had, in a long line of great Coord's.

 

Yeah, like Kyle said, it was an underhanded scheme on my part in hiring her.

 

Actually, she submitted plans and ideas when she applied for the position, and a rough idea of what you are now seeing was a big part of that. After viewing her qualifications and plans, it was a no brainer for me to appoint her. Best VATSIM decision I ever made by far and it pays off everyday.

 

One of her points for bringing this type of event to light:

 

I heard many many complaints from the ARTCCs regarding that there was so little slots to host an ARTCC event in. This will open up some more slots. Be creative for the other three fridays. That's what separates people is their ability to be creative. Have fun with it, and please give this new FNO idea atleast two months before p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing judgement on it.

Matthew Temple

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Theres no reason to wait.

 

Remember what I just said isn't my opinion, its FACT.

 

Hire a better events coordinator. Get off your rear and actually plan an event instead of sitting around and complaining, right? Don't judge the event until it has actually taken place and don't take cheap shots at Karen. She took a job (volunteered I should say) and is doing an amazing job, maybe get to know her before throwing insults around?

 

Remember this is a hobby and that having keyboard wars is not only immature, but pointless. Just let the event happen and then see for yourself if it is what you want. Keep in mind that FNO attracts about 100-200 pilots. That isn't even close to the number of members we have on the network. Branching out and exploring new ideas is the key to success.

 

To start, I never once made a cheap shot at Karen or insulted her in any way, shape, or form. No idea were your getting that...

 

Second, the first to sentences of your post make no sense.

 

I think you failed to actually read my above post. If you did you would have noticed I was saying that no matter what you do in this situation the more popular of the ARTCC's will see more traffic then the smaller ones.

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Theres no reason to wait.

 

Remember what I just said isn't my opinion, its FACT.

 

Hire a better events coordinator. Get off your rear and actually plan an event instead of sitting around and complaining, right?

You can plan a million events and never get any traffic, I don't see what your point is.

 

The mistake is made when you just post an event and say "Here is when it is, come and fly". Events need to be planned in conjunction with VA's and the whole membership base of Vatsim. When you include everyone in your idea, you get traffic.

 

Brandon, most of my comments were referencing all the posts made here. The ARTCC with the most popular airports might get the most traffic on any random night, but the ARTCC who properly plans events will get more traffic than ZLA. All it takes is a little effort, which means actually planning events and doing our part to get people flying instead of complaining about an event that 9 out of 10 people on here know NOTHING about. It hasn't happened yet so how can you complain about it?

Alex Bailey

ZMA I-1

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I know well what the layout and the focus of the new FNO is.

 

I can complain because someone will ALWAYS get screwed with the new FNO as opposed to the old one.

 

Formerly, one ARTCC would get the spotlight and was guarenteed good traffic. In this new event your taking the traffic that is keeping one ARTCC "Busy" and splitting it 3 ways.

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Trust me, at ZME, we've tried it. Jared (Our ED) has gone way out of his way to try and attract VA's, usually to no avail. The ONLY time ZME has ever seen more traffic than ZLA, was during FNO.

 

All things being equal, I don't know if you've noticed but at times when ZLA was not spotlighted during FNO, we still staffed as much as we could so we attracted the traffic we could. Notwithstanding how popular ZLA is, but the whole credo of "if you staff it, they will come" still stands. I've seen places such as ZLC staffed to the hilt outside of a FNO, and pull some pretty good traffic.

 

My point is, you shouldn't put all your eggs in one nest, or one event, to pull your best traffic, let alone leave it up to the divisional level to place that event for you.

 

As far as ZLA is concerned, this does free up quite a bit of time for us to talk about filling the rest of our summer of events in our schedule. How about the same on your end, aye?

 

BL.

Brad Littlejohn

ZLA Senior Controller

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Ive been doing some looking around on some of the biggest va's forums, and from that I can say that this change is not well wanted at all.

 

Looking at a forum where the formor vatusa event manager, He doesnt like it.

 

I think that there will be LESS Traffic because this event is spread out, pilots like super condensed airports, having to hold, 80 aircraft on the ground at once, instead of 1 pilot every 5-10 minutes.

 

We will see, we will see. Maybe a major va will start up their own friday night event and make FNO live on, in their own version of it

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Ive been doing some looking around on some of the biggest va's forums, and from that I can say that this change is not well wanted at all.

 

Looking at a forum where the formor vatusa event manager, He doesnt like it.

 

I think that there will be LESS Traffic because this event is spread out, pilots like super condensed airports, having to hold, 80 aircraft on the ground at once, instead of 1 pilot every 5-10 minutes.

 

Yes, but no. There is a lot of monotony in the same old route being flown all the time. Yes, it's popular, but after flying it all the bloody time, it gets boring. At least with this type of format, lesser used airports could also be flown into/out from, which adds more traffic to the controller, and more flexibility to the pilot in terms of airports and traffic between departure and destination.

 

We will see, we will see. Maybe a major va will start up their own friday night event and make FNO live on, in their own version of it

 

See myprevious post in this thread regarding TGIF. People say history never repeats...

 

BL.

Brad Littlejohn

ZLA Senior Controller

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The concept of less traffic per ARTCC is very real, and is something that was brought up amongst the staff before this event was made public. But in theory, it's also a lot more realistic. For the first time ever in VATSIM history, ZLA created the California Screamin'. It was revolutionary in that it wasn't a fly-in to one major airport, rather a fly-in to ALL airports, big and small, based on the real world timetables. For those who haven't been around long, the CalScream event shattered multiple VATSIM records over the years (we just finished the 12th version a few months ago?), and the pilots loved the realistic experience, as did the controllers.

 

So while there might be less traffic per ARTCC, it might be a more realistic and fun environment in which to fly. Who knows, let's give it a try and see what happens.

 

But in the meantime (:D), for those of you who enjoy the old-style FNO action, ZLA will be hosting a fly-in this upcoming Friday (8/31) in the absence of a FNO. Check out the VATUSA Events calendar for further details. Come join us!

Bryan Wollenberg

ZLA!

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...For the first time ever in VATSIM history, ZLA created the California Screamin'. It was revolutionary in that it wasn't a fly-in to one major airport, rather a fly-in to ALL airports, big and small, based on the real world timetables.

...

But in the meantime (:D), for those of you who enjoy the old-style FNO action, ZLA will be hosting a fly-in this upcoming Friday (8/31) in the absence of a FNO. Check out the VATUSA Events calendar for further details. Come join us!

 

Bryan's not so subtle promo does highlight that this does create vacuum that will be filled by the ARTCC's and VA's.

 

That could end up being one of the biggest hurdles this new event faces.

 

Also it may not seem so as it was a long time ago, but the first flyin's were actually regional and covered multiple ARTCC's (mostly in the northeast). A single airport fly-in was not tried for some time because of concerns it would be too much traffic with major delays etc if it all went to one airport. But once it was done by ZLA in 2000, and it was proven a success , the single airport format quickly became the fly-in norm.

 

Regards.

Ernie Alston

Albuquerque ARTCC

Vatsim Supervisor.

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I love Bryan's promo, and I'll be adding it to every place we advertise VATUSA Events! Kudos to ZLA for stepping up and offering their Friday night Fly-In Event.

 

 

this does create vacuum that will be filled by the ARTCC's and VA's.

 

That could end up being one of the biggest hurdles this new event faces.

 

Instead of "vacuum", I think of it as an opportunity and a great chance for ARTCC's and VA's to put together events that highlight what they do best and what their members most enjoy. This is a diverse community and all our members deserve to have a variety of events to choose from.

Karen Dunbar

Events Director

VATUSA

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Instead of "vacuum", I think of it as an opportunity and a great chance for ARTCC's and VA's to put together events that highlight what they do best and what their members most enjoy. This is a diverse community and all our members deserve to have a variety of events to choose from.

 

I agree with you it'd be great opportunity for the other ARTCC's to take advantage of this, but we have a lot of history in this organization that says otherwise.

 

Only a few will do it, the rest will just sit on the sidelines. Bceause then they have to do all the work, getting VA's to participate , promoting , scheduling etc etc. Not everyone wants to go through all the effort required to set up an event that often. That's the reason we went to these rotating spotlight type of events in the first place. It was easier everything was already set up all you had to do was staff it when it was your turn.

 

But lets see who is right in 6 months.

 

Regards.

Ernie Alston.

Albuquerque ARTCC

Vatsim Supervisor.

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I guess I am an unbearable optimist. I believe that the Events Directors we have in the ARTCCs are more than just figureheads, and will rise to the challenge.

 

And, it's not that much of a challenge: with 22 ARTCC's (23 if you count ZAK) and 40 open Fridays, that's less than two Friday night events per year for each ARTCC to plan. And, if some of the 90 plus VA's want to plan events (and I hear that some do), then the ARTCCs will have even less of a "load" to plan for.

 

I also [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume that the ARTCCs that don't put events on the calendar won't have any because they don't want any. As I told the ARTCC events directors when we were discussing this change, every VA and every ARTCC has a reputation to make or break. At least now, they have the chance to shine in their own particular way.

 

I think there is incredible potential for creativity out there, and I've seen it in the emails I've gotten back from my call for "unique event ideas" that has been on the FNO pages since May. I'm confident that VATUSA Events will end up stronger than ever.

 

However, as Dennis Miller is so fond of saying "That's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

Karen Dunbar

Events Director

VATUSA

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