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Señores cordial saludo, no pretendo con mi opinión seguir dejando la estela turbulenta que generan comentarios sin fundamento y que a veces en su gran mayoría atentan contra el buen nombre de una persona, ahora percibo el deseo de muchos de volver a COLATC; les pregunto una cosa cuando COLATC cerro operaciones cerro con decoro?

 

Es más nunca se supo cuando finalizaron sus operaciones por que tuvieron una pagina que en un lapso de tres años no fue actualizada. Ahora estas DOS personas que vienen a exigir y agitar masas.... por favor respeten y busquen el origen del problema o les parece que por problemas de tipo personal o de diferencia en la forma de apreciar las cosas preferimos atacar en gavilla a una persona o una institución.... cuando COLATC se fue créanme que me sentí mal por las personas que estaban ahí al frente por que si les hicieron una guerra según manifiestan ellos, por que no pueden explicarle a la gente lo absurdas que fueron las decisiones de la mayoría de controladores COLATC que ante el cambio a FLYCOL decidieron pedir BAJA DE RANGO u otros SIMPLEMENTE EMIGRARON hacia otras redes de vuelo simulado dejando a FLYCOL en un déficit de controladores pero lastimosamente no han visto eso o al menos los REVOLUCIONARIOS no han utilizado o informado acerca de esto a quienes utilizan para sus nefastos y bajos propósitos.

 

Respeto señores y mesura a la hora de emitir comentarios, Conociendo la esencia del problema les digo una cosa dejen de ser mentecatos y actúen como personas adultas aunque la verdad hay mucho adulto cronológico pero demasiado infantil de intelecto.

 

Si quieren exigir den algo nunca nadie ha colaborado con FLYCOL y la verdad es que no entiendo y nunca entenderé por que se presentan los casos de que un mismo miembro de VATSIM perteneciente al FIR de Colombia fue el encargado de armar el sindicato por que eso es lo que hizo un sindicato como todos los que existen en nuestro país, estúpidos y de exigencias tontas que van en deterioro de las empresas, o acaso buscan renombre al ser el nuevo presidente o jefe de FIR........ Maduren que se los llevo el carajo señores, no comparto los comentarios majaderos y acusativos que hacen los que van en contra de FLYCOL.

 

Simplemente son y perdonen que se los diga unos " IDIOTAS UTILES " de otros que no saben ni donde están parados.... la verdad no quiero pelear con nadie y no quiero comentarios adicionales al presente, digo lo que siento y propongo metamos hombro todos juntos y organicemos lo que no esta bien, dejemos las cosas claras y metámosle todos juntos si se consideran gente de aviación como lo soy en realidad sabrán que con lo único que obtenemos algo productivo y teniendo el viento en contra es despegar... despeguemos.......

 

¡ESTOY CON FLYCOL...... RECIBO COMENTARIOS CONSTRUCTIVOS...!

 

 

ATT. Hernán Darío Hernández Marín

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Hello Everyone:

 

First of all, we have to be sensible (sensatos) and honest here. Please do not come to this forum to lie and/or bias things. If people want to participate, please do it without strong expressions and unpolite words. Gross language does not make any difference, it only supports our internal problem.

 

Come here, express yourself, participate, give ideas, opinions, and state your arguments with fundamentals and proofs. Help and construct.

 

Remember this discussion is being followed by all VATSIM Staff members, and this is not the image we want to reflect on them. This is not about a fight between COLATC and FLYCOL, this is not about personal interests and feelings. This is about our Virtual Simulated Air Space, about our hobby, about friendship, about the fuel that has given us thrust since we were children and allows us nowadays to make our dream of flying come true.

 

Saying COLATC's page was not updated for 3 years is completely not true. In fact, those 3 final years were the most active ones. The page was constantly updated with charts and new procedures, NOTAMs, useful information and useful tools. I can state this as I constantly exchanged information and visitors with my own Project, Aviacol.net.

 

Please, when you ask and demand for sensible (sensata), accurate and honest information, do the same whenever you post a message here. It's not necessary to use gross and unpolite language, that really envisions the kind of person behind those comments, but does not make any difference when pointing your statements.

 

This is not about going back to COLATC or finishing with FLYCOL, this is about a WHOLE community that is willing to say what they think and is demanding changes, that were promissed, but never arrived.

 

If you think we are "Useful Idiots", I respect that opinion, but I do not consider myself as one. I'm grown up and mature enough as for having my own thoughts and statements.

 

Regards.

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Hola

 

Estoy de acuerdo, la administracion actual de colombia tiene muchas falencias y se ha perdido mucho, y creo que es notablen la dismunicion de la cantidad de horas controladas, ademas de una falta total de conocieminto de los controladores, los cuales no tienen conocimientos sobre procedimientos de control, es hora de hacer una nueva administracion y recuperar con orgullo lo que un dia fue colombia y poner a alguien que realmente este comprometido.

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Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con Dario,

 

Es hora de reconciliarnos y meter el hombro todos juntos y organizar lo que no está bien. Hay muchas cosas que no estuvieron bien en el pasado. Y muchas cosas que actualmente no están bien. Y por eso mismo es la idea de renovar para el cambio.

 

Si crees que en un lapso de tres años la página de COLATC no fue actualizada, pues bueno esa es tu opinión. El por que se fue COLATC creo que no viene al caso, el pasado en el pasado está y es hora de avanzar. Pero si revisas tus archivos hay cientos de docomeentos que dicen exactamente por que se fue COLATC y quienes fueron los culpables de que se acabara COLATC.

 

Cuando una persona pide baja de rango, como yo lo hice en su momento, fue por dignidad principalmente. Porque no me parecia justo que un rango obtenido con tanto sudor y tan luchado en casi 10 años de historia lo obtuviera una persona sin calificaciones, sin conocer del tema, con ambiciones personales, y con desgraciadamente el objetivo de desunirnos que es lo que actualmente vemos. Mucha gente fue promovida por amiguismo, sin conocer siquiera principios básicos de control, mucho menos de ética. No lo consideré justo; especialmente con gente que ha luchado tanto por sus rangos a lo largo de estos años.

 

Para superar esto es indispensable reconocer que estamos desunidos, y que la actual organización no ha logrado superar esta desunión. Partiendo de esa base podemos trabajar en algo nuevo, sin quitarle méritos a nadie ni insultar ni mucho menos. Esto es un hobby no hay necesidad de ir a esos extremos.

 

Por eso mismo es que debemos trabajar en una solución en la que todos salgamos beneficiados. La única manera es pensando en el ACC por encima de las personas que actualmente lo dirigen. Como reactivar el tráfico en Colombia? Cómo reactivar la calidad de ATC? Como hacer que los que se han ido regresen? Como hacer que los que están actualmente se queden? Como volver a realizar grandes eventos?

 

Y por ende se propuso que entre nosotros digamos lo que queremos y lo que necesitamos para hacer esto realidad. De una manera POSITIVA y CONSTRUCTIVA, sin insultos y sin recriminaciones.

 

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con usted en que COLATC no debe volver. COLATC tuvo su historia, sus cosas buenas, sus cosas malas y esta ya finalizó. Debemos es buscar algo nuevo que enmiende los errores pasados y trabajar para lograrlo. FLYCOL después de un año no lo logró, pienso que es justo que propongamos, ENTRE TODOS, un nuevo líder para que VATSUR lo considere y de esta manera legitimice su gestión con la aprobación de la mayoría.

 

Lo invito a que deje todo ese odio y lo canalice en que esto es algo bueno para la simulación que traerá cosas muy buenas, se lo aseguro.

 

Cordialmente,

 

Alberto Salamanca

 

Señores cordial saludo, no pretendo con mi opinión seguir dejando la estela turbulenta que generan comentarios sin fundamento y que a veces en su gran mayoría atentan contra el buen nombre de una persona, ahora percibo el deseo de muchos de volver a COLATC; les pregunto una cosa cuando COLATC cerro operaciones cerro con decoro?

 

Es más nunca se supo cuando finalizaron sus operaciones por que tuvieron una pagina que en un lapso de tres años no fue actualizada. Ahora estas DOS personas que vienen a exigir y agitar masas.... por favor respeten y busquen el origen del problema o les parece que por problemas de tipo personal o de diferencia en la forma de apreciar las cosas preferimos atacar en gavilla a una persona o una institución.... cuando COLATC se fue créanme que me sentí mal por las personas que estaban ahí al frente por que si les hicieron una guerra según manifiestan ellos, por que no pueden explicarle a la gente lo absurdas que fueron las decisiones de la mayoría de controladores COLATC que ante el cambio a FLYCOL decidieron pedir BAJA DE RANGO u otros SIMPLEMENTE EMIGRARON hacia otras redes de vuelo simulado dejando a FLYCOL en un déficit de controladores pero lastimosamente no han visto eso o al menos los REVOLUCIONARIOS no han utilizado o informado acerca de esto a quienes utilizan para sus nefastos y bajos propósitos.

 

Respeto señores y mesura a la hora de emitir comentarios, Conociendo la esencia del problema les digo una cosa dejen de ser mentecatos y actúen como personas adultas aunque la verdad hay mucho adulto cronológico pero demasiado infantil de intelecto.

 

Si quieren exigir den algo nunca nadie ha colaborado con FLYCOL y la verdad es que no entiendo y nunca entenderé por que se presentan los casos de que un mismo miembro de VATSIM perteneciente al FIR de Colombia fue el encargado de armar el sindicato por que eso es lo que hizo un sindicato como todos los que existen en nuestro país, estúpidos y de exigencias tontas que van en deterioro de las empresas, o acaso buscan renombre al ser el nuevo presidente o jefe de FIR........ Maduren que se los llevo el carajo señores, no comparto los comentarios majaderos y acusativos que hacen los que van en contra de FLYCOL.

 

Simplemente son y perdonen que se los diga unos " IDIOTAS UTILES " de otros que no saben ni donde están parados.... la verdad no quiero pelear con nadie y no quiero comentarios adicionales al presente, digo lo que siento y propongo metamos hombro todos juntos y organicemos lo que no esta bien, dejemos las cosas claras y metámosle todos juntos si se consideran gente de aviación como lo soy en realidad sabrán que con lo único que obtenemos algo productivo y teniendo el viento en contra es despegar... despeguemos.......

 

¡ESTOY CON FLYCOL...... RECIBO COMENTARIOS CONSTRUCTIVOS...!

 

 

ATT. Hernán Darío Hernández Marín

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Señor Alberto Salamanca Respetado Aficionado Me permito saludarlo , lo he leído en repetidas ocasiones en varios foros , leí su tutoría de comunicación de simulacion con torres de control y me doy cuenta que es una persona trabajadora en el tema de la simulacion de vuelos , llevo año y medio simulando vuelos controlado ,soy un aficionado que lee constantemente todo lo relacionado con el tema lo he visto a ud volando y haciendo control , tengo contacto con simuvuelo de España, se de las condiciones y reglas para ejercer este mundo maravilloso de la simulacion aérea, y las respeto , acato ...es un mundo de simulacion ...nada mas , a que voy porque de mi introducción , algunos señores controladores no se que actitudes de respeto y calidades solidarias HAN APRENDIDO para con las "PERSONAS"que nos sentamos en un PC para divertirnos o sentir que estamos en una realidad virtual para que se sientan ellos unos seres que llegaron del espacio sideral y no permiten una pregunta , o que NO den explicaciones como interactuar técnica y elegantemente en esta " SIMULACION", además amenazan "si ud no sabe volar en red retirese y vaya aprenda o lo reportamos para que lo retiren" .; un despotismo increíble ,soy una persona muy madura que conozco los parámetros sociales de amistad y solidaridad con el estado de derecho que tenemos en Colombia, para que personas grotescas que vayan amenazando cuando se comete un error virtual o nada mas sin tratar de herir físicamente o moralmente a otra persona. A Ud no lo conozco pero si me han dado referencias de su trabajo en tener activos los lazos virtuales en Colombia.. leo lo que realizan en España , encuentros , charlas, compartir experiencias ..A y además le cuento que realizo vuelos con vatsim España e IVAO y lo,digo con sinceridad y ninguna falacia estos señores controladores si me han ayudado en mis dificultades , corrigen con respeto y lo mas importante su léxico es perfecto claro sin oscurantismo . Le comento estas reflexiones , en una manera de contribuir para ampliar el espectro Humano, que cuando alguien entra en red , como lo hago veo un controlador " entro en pánico , que dira...?..uy mejor desconecto.." me recorre un escalofrío se me bloquea el avión .. me tiemblan las manos ....y chao. PD:En IVAO me he sentido mas cómodo... Soy muy claro, en mis relatos nací en día de la felicidad y no en un temblor. Sin tener el gusto de conocerlo Me suscribo , atentamente con Ud, y cualquier colaboración con gusto MANUEL ALBERTO SANCHEZVATSIM 988437IVAO 237506 C/c Direccion de AERONET- Sr Jairo Gutierrez

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Estoy totalmente en desacuerdo de la administración FLYCOL, desde que esta administración entro en Colombia todas las operaciones virtuales se vieron nen detrimento, tanto la falta de control como la falta de entrenamiento. Es increíble que una persona se supone que recibió un "entrenamiento ATC" me diga a mi en aproximación a la pista 13R en el dorado, me pide que le notifique el marcador exterior de la pista 13R sabiendo que la pista 13R no tiene marcadores. Desde una cosa como esta se ve al fata de entrenamiento a el ATC, por favor es urgente tener un cambio de inmediato, por favor directivas de Vatsim tomen una buena desicion esto tiene que cambiar.

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Hello Everyone:

 

First of all, we have to be sensible (sensatos) and honest here. Please do not come to this forum to lie and/or bias things. If people want to participate, please do it without strong expressions and unpolite words. Gross language does not make any difference, it only supports our internal problem.

 

Come here, express yourself, participate, give ideas, opinions, and state your arguments with fundamentals and proofs. Help and construct.

 

Remember this discussion is being followed by all VATSIM Staff members, and this is not the image we want to reflect on them. This is not about a fight between COLATC and FLYCOL, this is not about personal interests and feelings. This is about our Virtual Simulated Air Space, about our hobby, about friendship, about the fuel that has given us thrust since we were children and allows us nowadays to make our dream of flying come true.

 

Saying COLATC's page was not updated for 3 years is completely not true. In fact, those 3 final years were the most active ones. The page was constantly updated with charts and new procedures, NOTAMs, useful information and useful tools. I can state this as I constantly exchanged information and visitors with my own Project, Aviacol.net.

 

Please, when you ask and demand for sensible (sensata), accurate and honest information, do the same whenever you post a message here. It's not necessary to use gross and unpolite language, that really envisions the kind of person behind those comments, but does not make any difference when pointing your statements.

 

This is not about going back to COLATC or finishing with FLYCOL, this is about a WHOLE community that is willing to say what they think and is demanding changes, that were promissed, but never arrived.

 

If you think we are "Useful Idiots", I respect that opinion, but I do not consider myself as one. I'm grown up and mature enough as for having my own thoughts and statements.

 

Regards.

 

A good guide. Everyone here needs to understand that there is not going to be a solution to this issue that picks one group over another. It is time that ALL of you realize the only solution for this is for all parties to come together and look at what can work. This will mean looking at differing points of view, compromise, and most of all a willingness to work together and let past events fade away. That is where the solution starts. Picking one group over another will only lead to another of this in a year or so.

 

So you need to decide.

Richard Jenkins

richard(a)vatsim.net

"It's all fun and games until the cops show up."

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Miembros VATSIM-COLOMBIA

 

Es claro que el FIR/ACC Colombia actualmente no cuenta con un administración y está prácticamente que abandonado y en ruinas. Pero aun se conservan unas bases solidas para volver a reconstruir y obtener lo que Alberto Salamanca propone en su comunicado. Y muestra de esto es la manifestación de cada uno de ustedes quienes están interesados en que las cosas mejoren y sean como antes.

 

Es momento de empezar a trabajar, no solamente debemos quedarnos en dar a conocer nuestro inconformismo por la actual situación sino es hora de unir esfuerzos y aportar soluciones. No solamente se trata de contar con un nuevo jefe del FIR, con capacidad de liderazgo, compromiso y aptitud de trabajar por y para una comunidad entera sino de conformar un nuevo equipo de trabajo con conformado de personas idóneas con las mismas convicciones y que se sientan representadas por su Jefe del FIR, y con el compromiso de unificar nuevamente a Colombia, dejando atrás las discordias bajo el concepto de inclusión social

 

Podemos afirmar que el FIR ya cuanta con miembros para un nuevo equipo de trabajo y las siguientes personas apoyan la iniciativa de Alberto Salamanca por una nueva administración: Pedro Perez, Juan Camilo Palacio, Andres Felipe Rojas, Ricardo Correa, Jorge Vidal, Maria Camila Martinez, Juan Pablo Betancourt, Luis Bernal, Luis Fernando Royero, Alonso Verdugo, Oscar Cuellar, Ernesto Pelaez, Oswaldo Flores, Diego Nieto, Andres Sierra, Moises Araujo, Javier Melo, Sebastian Gomez, Javier Fernandez, Jose Garcia, Juan Felipe Bages, Diego Bernal Delgado, Pablo Ortega, Camilo Bernal Cavallazzi, y Manuel Alberto Sanchez.

 

Esperamos que más miembros se unan, y que todos hagamos parte de la solución. También quiero invitar por medio del docomeento adjunto (Facts_about_FLYCOL.pdf) a Harold Triana Jefe del FIR y representante de FLYCOL para que haga parte de los cambios y mejoras que se buscan en el FIR/ACC Colombia. Así mismo con este docomeento expongo pruebas y evidencian para argumentar las inconformidades y quejas que giran en torno a FLYCOL y que motivan el cambio; para que el BoG de VATSIM en cabeza de Richard Jenkins se enteren de la actual situación y apoyen y brinden la máxima colaboración y asesoría en el mejoramiento del FIR/ACC.

 

Los miembros que quieran firmar el docomeento o hacer aportes concretos al análisis de gestión de Harold Triana como Jefe del FIR bienvenidos sean, pueden enviarme un mail y con mucho gusto realizare las adiciones pertinentes y las firmas para dar más peso y apoyo a este.

 

Cordialmente,

 

 

 

Carlos A. Cárdenas S.

ID: 819945

VATSIM Supervisor

Colombia vACC/FIR

Carlos A. Cárdenas S.

ID: 819945

VATSIM Supervisor

Colombia vACC/FIR

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Any solution this time around is going to include that all web content be donated and available to the members regardless of who contributed it. If that is unacceptable then I would highly suggest that you not participate.

 

Carlos your pdf will take me a few days to translate.

Richard Jenkins

richard(a)vatsim.net

"It's all fun and games until the cops show up."

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Buenos días

 

Realmente la división de sur América comenzó en decadencia desde que se posesiono la nueva administración. Desde ese momento la gente comenzó a dejar de controlar y todo esto fue porque hubo una discriminación por parte del nuevo staff de Vatsur. Es mi caso y el de muchos otros, los cuales teníamos mas meritos para ser Instructores o hasta jefes de la división de Sur América, pero por motivos de discriminación y amistad entre los actuales jefes de la división nombraron solo a sus amigos o a las personas que creían convenientes para sus fines, y a nosotros las personas preparadas nos hicieron a un lado.

 

Muchos de los controladores tuvieron que salir corriendo a nuevas divisiones, antes de que los señores jefes de sur América, nos hicieran un Down grade simplemente por no estar con su ideología.

 

No desmerito el trabajo de la actual administración del FIR de Colombia, pero si hago una comparación con el trabajo realizado por COLATC y realmente hay una gran diferencia entre los dos, hay más trabajo, hay más control, hay más pruebas de un trabajo bien realizado por parte de COLATC que por parte de la nueva administración.

 

Señor Jenkins Sur América necesita cambios, Necesita un cambio Urgente en la administración de VATSUR. Hay gente mejor preparada que la que hoy en día ejerce el papel de jefe, hay que realizar cambios, hay que permitir que los pilotos y controladores virtuales sean los que elijan a su representante y no que sea una sola persona quien elija a un representante de toda una comunidad.

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Good morning

 

The division of south America really began in decadence since you appropriates the new administration. From that moment people began to stop to control and all this was because there was a discrimination on the part of the new staff of Vatsur. It is my case and the one of many other, which we had but groupers to be Instructor or until bosses of the division of South America, but for discrimination reasons and friendship among the current bosses of the division named alone to their friends or people that believed convenient for their ends, and to us prepared people made us to a side.

Many of the controllers had to leave running to new divisions, before the gentlemen bosses from south America, simply made us a Down grade for not being with their ideology.

 

Non (desmerito) the work of the current administration of the FIR of Colombia, but if I make a comparison with the work carried out by COLATC and there is really a great difference among both, there is more work, there is more control, there are more tests of a work very carried out on the part of COLATC that on the part of the new administration.

 

Mr. Jenkins South America needs changes, Needs a Urgent change in the administration of VATSUR. There are prepared better people that the one that today in day exercises boss's paper, is to carry out changes, it is necessary to allow that the pilots and virtual controllers are those that choose its representative and not that she/he is a single person who chooses a representative of an entire community.

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Camilo,

 

Many of the controllers had to leave running to new divisions, before the gentlemen bosses from south America, simply made us a Down grade for not being with their ideology.

 

This has been an issue in the past. Members being illegally downgraded in the VATSIM database. I have personally reversed all the downgrades that were submitted. This is an issue that goes back to the time of COLATC with staff members abusing their authority within the CERT database.

 

Mr. Jenkins South America needs changes, Needs a Urgent change in the administration of VATSUR. There are prepared better people that the one that today in day exercises boss's paper, is to carry out changes, it is necessary to allow that the pilots and virtual controllers are those that choose its representative and not that she/he is a single person who chooses a representative of an entire community.

 

VATSIM is not a democracy. Popularity contests are not a substitute for coherent goal minded management. I think the bigger question is why does Colombia continuously have these pesonality conflicts? We (BoG) know about the continous fighting among the different groups in Colombia, we know about Supervisors trying build false cases against members, we know about illegal downgrades, we know about the endless fighting to make the other side look as bad as possible. There is no side (COLATC and FLYCOL) in this mess that has clean hands and can say they are without fault and until some people start to recognize that, this fighitng will continue. If the parties involved can't come together and for once work for the common good of the members instead of playing gotcha games, I would rather just close the FIR and be done with it because we'll never be able to break this chain of events.

Richard Jenkins

richard(a)vatsim.net

"It's all fun and games until the cops show up."

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Richard is right.

 

Both COLATC and FLYCOL have their fallencies. Both are guilty of the problems that we are currently living.

 

Earlier I stated that this is not to bring what's in the past back. This is about creating something new. Something pure that includes everyone. That does not exclude half of Colombia but rather unites us all. Sadly this past year has been awful for us, VATSIM Colombia has reached very low levels as demonstrated by these posts and by what people think.

 

This is why a new leader, capable of uniting us all should be appointed ACC Chief. The current administration is persecuting everyone, even threatening with legally suing those that do not approve what Mr. Triana (the chief) is doing. This is not fair. This is not what this hobby is about. This is only creating more division and tensions.

 

A new administration is urgently needed, with compromise from everyone to make things better and to take Colombia back to where it should belong. We do not want our FIR closed. We want to start over, learning from all of our mistakes and working for a better VATSIM Colombia. This is not about bringing COLATC back; its about bringing the unity that we had back and stop the fighting.

 

I believe we can do it and ask Richard, Sergio Cousens, and all of those responsible for giving us a chance to work things out. A new administration, a suggestion of a neutral individual willing and capable of doing the job with the conscent of VATSUR and Mr. Jenkins. We will compromise and we will make it happen.

 

Thank you,

 

Alberto Salamanca

 

Camilo,

 

Many of the controllers had to leave running to new divisions, before the gentlemen bosses from south America, simply made us a Down grade for not being with their ideology.

 

This has been an issue in the past. Members being illegally downgraded in the VATSIM database. I have personally reversed all the downgrades that were submitted. This is an issue that goes back to the time of COLATC with staff members abusing their authority within the CERT database.

 

Mr. Jenkins South America needs changes, Needs a Urgent change in the administration of VATSUR. There are prepared better people that the one that today in day exercises boss's paper, is to carry out changes, it is necessary to allow that the pilots and virtual controllers are those that choose its representative and not that she/he is a single person who chooses a representative of an entire community.

 

VATSIM is not a democracy. Popularity contests are not a substitute for coherent goal minded management. I think the bigger question is why does Colombia continuously have these pesonality conflicts? We (BoG) know about the continous fighting among the different groups in Colombia, we know about Supervisors trying build false cases against members, we know about illegal downgrades, we know about the endless fighting to make the other side look as bad as possible. There is no side (COLATC and FLYCOL) in this mess that has clean hands and can say they are without fault and until some people start to recognize that, this fighitng will continue. If the parties involved can't come together and for once work for the common good of the members instead of playing gotcha games, I would rather just close the FIR and be done with it because we'll never be able to break this chain of events.

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Good day.

 

I thnik what Carlos Cárdenas did was a really complete evidence about the bad administration. A lot of proff that show the reality about all we are complaining about. Now, here is the all evidence and proff against FLYCOL. FLYCOL and Harold Triana (FIR Chief) always requested for that. Now we got all that, and now, we request proff and evidence from him to show us the evidence to support FLYCOL.

 

Mr. Jenkins, try to read carefully. Anyway, a lot of SCREENSHOTS are the evidence, and no translation is needed to understand.

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Hello Vatsim Members,

 

 

I dont like to be writing on the Forums but our FIR needs urgently a change!

 

First, I am agree with FlyCol (the name), the problem here is that I dont like how FlyCol staff is working!!! we need new People, so please Mr. Jenkins help us! How you can help us? Letting us to get or maybe to vote (I know that VATSIM is not a democracy) a new leader, this is what we need... We have amazing people, with skills and time, this will guide us in a proper route!

 

cya guys,

 

 

Juan Carlos Otero W

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The one thing that troubles me about this entire thread is that there is very little talk about proposed solutions. If you think removing Trina is the answer to all of Colombia's ills, you are sadly mistaken. This situation has grown from incidents in the past and actions from people involved in this very thread. Was the outcome going to be something else? I don't think so.

 

There are people within COLATC and COLFLY that have taken action that have harmed the community. So far what I have seen is a very eloquently disguised campaign to replace COLFLY with COLATC. This is not going to happen. As I said earlier there will be compromise and there will be a coming together of the community anything else is unacceptable. We are not going to boot one group out to make another group happy. In other words, you are stuck with each other and you need to make it work. Time for maturity and reason to prevail.

 

Those of that have written me, I have your emails and I am reading them carefully. If I detect lies or propaganda in any of them I discount anything you might have to say on the subject. So please, be forthright and cautious in your tone. Provide only facts and do not exaggerate those facts. Sergio Cousens and myself have made requests for information and will be reviewing together.

Richard Jenkins

richard(a)vatsim.net

"It's all fun and games until the cops show up."

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Richard,

 

The proposed solution is to have a new leadership. Noone wants COLATC back, not even myself. COLATC was full of mistakes, just like FLYCOL is. This is not about winners or loosers, or a group over another. This is only for eliminating that belief in which there are two groups. This is only one group, one community.

 

The proposed solution is a new leadership capable of integrating everyone in Colombia. A new inclusive staff that will make efforts not to exclude anyone but to integrate all of the community. I do not want to be in that staff, nor does Carlos or the rest of the old COLATC staff.

 

I want to fly in peace, without fearing any persecution. If I am granted the oportunity I will become a controller again. But I personally do not want any staff positions. Neither does the rest of the old COLATC staff and I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you none of them will request or even want any positions.

 

A clear line must be made between what is being requested here, and what you intepret this to be. I hope with this message you understand that there are no hidden or disguised messages. I want to make myself absolutely clear with this. I do not believe this request to be harmful at all.

 

I believe enough evidence has been shown demonstrating that efforts have been made all around but it has been impossible to accomplish at a local level. There are no communication channels with Mr. Triana.

 

I proposed a way to make it fair with everyone: A new post where the community would elect a leader to propose to VATSUR for its consideration. After all it is the community and only the people in the ocmmunity the ones who know what kind of leader would be capable of uniting us back. This idea was not liked though. I do however believe we should give it a try. It is in my opinion the best way to compromise and to come together. If Mr. Triana is ratified then Mr. Triana it is and comprmise would be made with him to make this work.

 

 

To make it clear once again, for you and for everyone else: NO COLATC BACK!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The one thing that troubles me about this entire thread is that there is very little talk about proposed solutions. If you think removing Trina is the answer to all of Colombia's ills, you are sadly mistaken. This situation has grown from incidents in the past and actions from people involved in this very thread. Was the outcome going to be something else? I don't think so.

 

There are people within COLATC and COLFLY that have taken action that have harmed the community. So far what I have seen is a very eloquently disguised campaign to replace COLFLY with COLATC. This is not going to happen. As I said earlier there will be compromise and there will be a coming together of the community anything else is unacceptable. We are not going to boot one group out to make another group happy. In other words, you are stuck with each other and you need to make it work. Time for maturity and reason to prevail.

 

Those of that have written me, I have your emails and I am reading them carefully. If I detect lies or propaganda in any of them I discount anything you might have to say on the subject. So please, be forthright and cautious in your tone. Provide only facts and do not exaggerate those facts. Sergio Cousens and myself have made requests for information and will be reviewing together.

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flycol dissatisfaction with the group are a minimum of people, not like most want to prove, I think it is funny that people who want to vastim has been in recent years far removed from the network and lately have not provided absolutely nothing now want to be directors vatsim Colombia

 

Mr. Rosero. What you said is half true. Some people like you said, went to others networks, but many other like me, still on this one, and watchin how this FLYCOL administration is getting worst everyday. Now we see another change on the webpage. Its really useless to see how can change the "skin" in a webpage, if the containing is empty. By the way, like you said, i dont speak "carreta", because, as you saw Carlos Cárdenas made an investigation really good, and: what did HAROLD TRIANA do? Taking this like a personnal offense, and saying a lot of lies and offenses to him. Mr. Rosero, a little of respect for all of us, because i dont know you, you dont know me, and im not interested to meet you. Respect first at all, because what HAROLD TRIANA is doing is what he wants to do, saying lies for all. We neves said that we want COLATC back. We even didnt say that we want FLYCOL out. We tried to say, we want a new leader, with FLYCOL administration. At least, a new chief for FIR. Because HAROLD TRIANA is a closed person, that doesnt want to hear complainings. Just to do what he wants, because like he says: "I´m the chief here..." Thats absurd.

 

And, if i dont control on VATSIM-Colombia, thats not excuse to delete me from the controllers list from FLYCOL.ORG webpage. Respect MR. Rosero, respect. We have bases to complaint about FLYCOL.

 

Good day.

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Now you can watch the kind of people that´s trying to "take the control" or just supporting the really bad work of flycol over Colombia´s FIR/ACC, i´m really dissapointed with the lies that Andres Rosero wrote in this forum , without a shame saying things that are an absolutely fake. If you stop and wacth the Colombian pilots opinion through the mailing list Mr Jenkins you´ll read that the most opinion are against and dessagree with flycol and the lier´s that are defending the so wrong and almost null data provided from flycol´s staff about the statistics and so poor training manuals for the new pilots and some new ATC. I dont know if you´ve watched the Carlos Cardenas post where is clearly the way that the community is being deceited and not only the Colombian community else the global community the people that comes to colombia and fly here or fly from another countries. Even deceiting VATSIM cause they´re not supporting the realism increasing in the Colombia´s FIR and affecting the realism quality in other FIR´s.

 

 

Mr Jenkins PLEASE HELP US! AT LEAST changing the actual staff! i think that you have enough evidence with the Carlos Cardenas Docomeent. Please Make yourself this question: " why the colombian people on VATSIM network is making that (the mistake) by second or third time???¿¿¿¿" and "Why the Colombia´s FIR staff dont say anything about the problem and just changes the web site´s color and no more...." then "why i´m not agree with this if ther´re showing me the enough evidence of the clearly low quality of the current ATC and current new pilots...the flyinn´s, the SKBO_APP, the number of operations, the iron mic, the traning manuals, how many pilots and ATC are requesting the changes for the FIR´s staff and finally why the flycol´s staff dont hear the pilot´s requests and why the flycol´s staff dont say nothing about the peoples desagree"

 

 

Thanks a lot for your time.

 

 

Ricardo Correa Arias

ID 930456.

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Buen dia a todos

 

Espero que este sea uno de los ultimos post y pronto mas que palabras tengamos hechos. Antes que nada quisiera decirles, que a todos los que han escrito les tengo gran respeto y espero que mantengan su amor por la aviacion virtual y este "hobby" que nos deberia unir a todos. Lei en su mayoria los foros y los comentarios de cada uno de ustedes, asi como imageenes y archivos adjuntos de cada post. Luego de esto espero ser concreto en las preguntas y opiniones que estos (los post y demas) han generado en mi.

 

1. En la mayoria de los post encontre mensajes haciendo alusion a la pagina de flycol, y bueno estoy de acuerdo, la pagina esta desactualizada, y mal trabajada, falta material y demas, pero en ninguno de esos post, vi alguein que dijera, hermano tengo un candidato para web master, o yo le peudo colaborar, hagamos una convocatoria para web master, o hagamos vaca para pagar un diseño de pagina el berraco que borre a los demas FIRS, asi qeu bueno, si esta mal, pues bueno cagada, vamos a ahcer algo y para hacer algo no necesito ser el jefe del FIR ni mucho menos, simplemente propongo soluciones. los invito a que hagamos eso.

 

2. No recuerdo el nombre pero alguin por ahi ya comenzo a hacer propuestas de nuevas acciones y correcciones, bkno hermano!! muy bueno eso, creo que es lo que se necesita, seamos todos uno solo, un pais, una aficion, un sueño, y cada uno de nosotros comenzemos a aportar cosas, yo ya estoy haciendo unos manuales de conexion a vatsim para los novatos, (espero queden bien) sino, pues parce, no me las se todas, si esta mal , me mandan un mailsito y se arregla y listo, pa eso tampoco necesito ser el jefe del FIR ni mucho menos.. no? y si ayudamos a los nuevos. (aunque por lo que se de aviacion uno nunca deja de ser nuevo, sino es mejor no volar mas) los invito pues a comunic[Mod - Happy Thoughts] con el director del fir o el encargado en X o Y area para preguntarle, viejito, en que le puedo ayudar (porque lei a varios que mejor dicho, saben mas que un piloto de la vida real, !! los felicito!! que bueno si contamos con ese conocimiento y lo ponemos al servicio de toda la comunidad, y no pa ciritcar, ahi seriamos el mejor fir del mundo)

 

3. Lei otro post de alguein que decia que abandono el control por dignidad porqeu vio que mucha gente subia sin esfuerzo. lo entiendo hermano, seguro que si, luego de que uno lucha tanto por su rango que llegue otro asi como asi sin saber mucho?, es feo, pero hermano, insisto, uno sabe porque junto con su ID dice STU+ o CTR, o SUP? , no no cierto? uno sabe porque lo demuestra y mas alla de eso porque le enseña a los que no saben (con humildad) y creame, toda la vida van a decir..coño esta man como sabe, como me ha enseñado...etc, asi diga CTR, o DON PUTAS al lado de su ID, siempre se acordaran del que les enseño poco o mucho, pero les enseño, y esa es la diea de esto no?. asi pues los invito a todos a que se unana de neuvo, y pongan en practica todo lo que saben y con ese aporte logremos mejorar cada dia mas.

 

otros muchos post, decian no que yo no controlo porque esta flycol al mando, perdon????? es enserio?, yo pense que nos gustaba pilotear y controlar, no se si estoy entonces en el lugar equivocado, ustedes diran, pero si eso es lo que nos gusta, que mande el que quiera mandar, desde que yo haga lo que me gusta hacer y cada dia mejore con la ayuda de todos, de personas que saben mas que yo (porque siempre habra alguein que sabe mas qe uno, creanlo) del carajo no?..y pues bueno cotnrolo porque me gusta, no porque mande pepito o el que quiera...yo controlo porque me gusta y porque la paso bueno, y cada dia busco aprender mas, o es que tienen que rogarme pa que yo la pase bueno? o tiene que mandar pepito para qeu yo la pase bueno?...porque si es asi etnonces si me equivoque al entrar a vatsim, para mi eso es mas mediocre que un controlador que no sabe mucho y se esfuerza por mejorar practicando, para mi eso no es una payasada. Payasada y mediocridad es atacarlo porque "yo se mucho", pero no le enseño, mas que mediocre es inmadurez. varias cosas afectan el cotnrol de trafico aereo y uno de piloto no las ve todas, recuerdenlo.

 

invito a todos los que se quejaron del control a que aporten sus grandes conocimientos en control de trafico aereo y en ingles y hasta en ruso pues... al crecimiento de flycol, de la aviacion virtual. alguna vez me corcharon con un vuelo VFR (pasa seguido no soy bueno en eso y no me da pena decirlo) y que hizo el capitan, por privado me dijo no mano vea eso es asi por tal y tal cosa, y lo practicamos y el se fue feliz y yo aun mas agradecido, de eso es que se trata no?, que chimba volar y compratir colombia virtual con gente asi (aprovecho y le mando un saludo a ese capitan, mano severa leccion de vida que me dio, gracias)

 

4. Respecto a lo de que solo se controla en cali, medellin y bogota. Si!, eso es cierto, pero varios factores influyen en eso, y tengo porque decirlo porque desde que soy controlador pocas, muy pocas veces he dejado de cotnrolar en otro lugar que no sea bucaramanga (torre palonegro), y les podria contar menos de 100 (o menos aviones) que han volado alla, feo no???, , y abro el servinfo y que veo...un monton de pilotos volando entre medellin y bogota (sin ningun control en ninguno de los dos lados)(no estoy diciendo que no exista buen cotnrol alla o que se conecten poco ahi) , hermano si la gana es volar cortico para sentirme piloto y "uy del putas como aterrizo y full ILS y que tales, pues no aguanta", como va uno querer controlar si a los pilotos les da pereza salir de ahi, igual pasa con cali, y dejen sin control un mes y se van a dar cuenta qeu muuuchos el 80% sigue volando alla asi no tengna control y el resto del pais? , y perdon pero eso no solo depende del jefe del FIR, eso ya va en las ganas de conocer de aplciar nuevos procedimientos y demas por paret de los pilotos.

 

inventemos algo para motivarlos a otros lugares (yo ya estoy haciendo un bannersito para un evento en bucaramanga, creemos mas y se los pasamos al encargado) haganle todos a pasarla bueno.

 

Para terminar, disculpas por lo extenso pero bueno era necesario, alfin y al cabo me referia a todo lo que lei en foros de vatsim sobre flycol. de nuevo los ivnito a todos a colaborar a pasar y a compartir archivos , a mejorar el conocimiento de todos en la red y etc. porque alejarnos de lo que nos gusta, si otros lo hacen mal pues hagamos bien nosotros y ayudemos a que los que lo hacen mal mejoren. NO MAS PELEA PORFA, QUE (disculpen la palabra) MARICADA, hagamole desde donde podamos a scar adelante el FIR.

 

Al sr. Jenkings, en estos dias lo pongo en ingles (scuse me sr, as soon as possible, i will write all in english) y tambien lo admiro y le pido disculpas en nombre de todos, porque son varias cosas que demuestran porque muchos de nosotros no estamos capacitados para "altos puestos" como el suyo u otros dentro de flycol, basta con ver la discusion tan ridicula, en vez de soluciones, muy agradecido por estar al tanto de todo y pendiente, esperemos mejore la situacion.

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Good day to all

 

I hope this is one of the last post and will soon have more facts than words. First of all I would say that all those who have written them I have great respect and I hope to maintain their love of aviation and this virtual "hobby" that should unite us all. Lei mostly forums and comments from each of you, as well as imageenes and attachments for each post. After this I hope to be practical questions and opinions that they (the post and others) have generated in me.

 

1. In most of the post encontre messages referring to the page flycol, good and I agree, the page is outdated and poorly worked, and other materials needed, but none of those post, I saw alguein read, my brother a candidate for web master, or I Peudada collaborate, to make a call web master, or make cow to pay for a design of the page berraco you clear to the other FIRS, qeu so good, if this evil, because good cage, we ahcer to something and do something I do not need to be the head of FIR let alone simply propose solutions. I invite us to do that.

 

2. I do not remember the name but by alguin ahi already started to make proposals for further actions and corrections, bkno brother! So very good, I think that is what is needed, we are all one, one country, a hobby, a dream, and each of us begin to make things, I am already doing some manuals connection vatsim for novices, (I hope well be) but because because I am not the be all, if this bad, I send a mailsito and settled and ready, pa that I need not be the head of FIR let alone .. No? and if we help the new ones. (though it is one of aviation never ceases to be new, but it's better not to fly over) because I invite you to contact the director of fir or responsible in X or Y area to ask, viejito, that I can help (lei because several that rather know more than a pilot real life! congratulate the! good that if we have that knowledge and put it to serve the entire community and not pa ciritcar, there we would be the FIR best in the world)

 

3. Lei another post alguein that decia that abandonment control dignity porqeu saw that many people climbed effortlessly. I understand brother, certain that if, after one fight both for its status as well as another arrives without knowing so much?, is ugly, but brother, I insist, because you know along with your ID says STU + or CTR, or SUP ? Not not true? because what one knows and demonstrates beyond that because it teaches those who do not know (with humility) and believe me, all life will say .. [Mod - lovely stuff] this man as you know, as has taught me ... etc, as well say CTR, or DON PUT beside his ID, always agree on which I show them little or much, but I show them, and that is not die from this?. So I invite everyone to join in Neuve, and put into practice everything they know and to this contribution we improve every day more.

 

many other post, they said no because I do not control this flycol in command, forgiveness ????? is seriously?, I thought that we liked pilots and controllers, then I do not know if I'm in the wrong place, you will say, but if that is what we like, who wants to send mandar, since I do what I like and make every day better with the help of all, people who know more than me (because there will always alguein who knows more qe one, believe it) carajo not? cotnrolo .. and therefore good because I like, not because send or pepito who wants to control me ... because I like and because good step, and every day I seek to learn more, or will have to Roger pa that I go good? or must mandar Pepito qeu I go for good? ... because if so etnonces if I mistake when entering vatsim, for me that's more than a mediocre driver who does not know how much and strives to improve practicing for my That is not a payasada. Clowns and mediocrity is attacked because "I know a lot," but I teach, but that is mediocre immaturity. Several things affect the cotnrol of air traffic and not one of the pilot sees all, recuerdenlo.

 

I invite all those who complained of control to make their great expertise in air traffic control in English and in Russian and even then ... flycol the growth of virtual aviation. I ever with a cork flying VFR (p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] followed'm not good at that and I do not say this penalty) and made the captain, told me in private hands not see that's so by such and such thing, and what we practice and I was happy and even more grateful, that is that it is not? that chimba Buy colombia virtual fly and with people so (and I take him to command a greeting that captain, hand severe lesson of life that gave me, thanks)

 

4. With regard to what that is controlled only in Cali, Medellín and Bogota. Yes!, That is true, but several factors influencing this, and I say this because I am from because few drivers, he rarely left cotnrolar elsewhere than bucaramanga (Palonegro tower), and they could count less than 100 (or fewer aircraft) that have flown there, not ugly?, And I open the servinfo ... and I see a lot of pilots flying between Medellin and Bogota (without any control on either side) (not I'm not saying that there is good cotnrol alla little or connect there), brother if it wins the fly cortico pilot and to feel "uy of whores as it landed and full ILS and such, it does not support", as one goes wanting to control if the pilots gives laziness leave there, just happens to quality, and stop uncontrolled one month and will give an account qeu muuuchos 80% is still not flying well alla tengna control and the rest of the country? , And forgiveness but that does not only depend on the head of FIR, and that is the desire to learn new procedures and other aplciar by paret of the pilots.

 

invent something to motivate them to other places (I am already doing a bannersito for an event in Bucaramanga, we spend more and are responsible to) do all good to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts].

 

Finally, apologies for the lengthy but good needed, alfin said and done I referred to everything that lei in forums on vatsim flycol. again ivnito everyone to work together to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and share files, to improve knowledge of everyone in the network and so on. away because of what we like, if others do poorly because we do well and help to those who do evil better. NO MORE Pelee porphyry, THAT (excuse the word) Maric, hagamole a scar from where we can advance the FIR.

 

To Mr. Jenkings, in these days so I put in English (sr scuse me, as soon as possible, i will write all in english) and also what I admire and I apologise on behalf of everyone, because there are several things that show because many of us do not We are trained to "senior posts" like yours or others within flycol, just look at the discussion so ridiculous, rather than solutions, very grateful for being aware of all pending and hopefully improve the situation.

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