Richard Jenkins Posted July 14, 2008 at 04:06 PM Posted July 14, 2008 at 04:06 PM Mr. Jenkins. WE all would like to know what you think about the FACT from FLYCOL, prepared by Carlos Cárdenas. There are a lot of evidence about the lies that this people say all the time. Thanks. Pedro, Once Sergio and I have a response from Mr. Trina we'll let you know. As for this continuos hateful rhetoric, I would suggest you start looking for solutions rather than spending your time seeing who can get who terminated. The never ending stream of emails about who said what and so and so should be suspended for this or that is becoming tiresome. RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Ricardo Martin Vázque Posted July 15, 2008 at 03:48 AM Posted July 15, 2008 at 03:48 AM Estimados miembros: Escribo este correo para dar a conocer lo que serÃa una buena aproximación al curso que deberÃa seguir esta comunidad. Escribo esto basándome en la obvia inconformidad que se tiene hacia FLYCOL, que a mi juicio está más que fundamentada. Dividiré este correo en temas para facilitar su lectura y comprensión. Sobre FLYCOL. FLYCOL, aunque no sea muy cómodo aceptarlo, no tiene ningún parecido a un trabajo serio. No tiene información clara con lo que respecta a su página web, la división de responsabilidades del personal no está bien definida y su calidad – como es obvio – es más que cuestionable. Su responsable, Harold Triana, ni si quiera ha hecho un comunicado oficial de la situación, lo cual es irresponsable y demuestra la falta de liderazgo. El propósito de la organización, que debe ser fomentar el tráfico en el FIR/vACC de Colombia y brindar entrenamiento, no se ha comeplido en lo más mÃnimo. Ahora, dados los hechos que envuelven a FLYCOL, es innegable que no es el camino a seguir. Propuesta para la comunidad. Muchas personas escriben correos electrónicos expresando su inconformidad, lo cual hasta cierto punto es bueno pero no suficiente. En una comunidad con caracterÃsticas tan peculiares, la experiencia demuestra que el mejor camino a nivel de resultados es tener como filosofÃa lo siguiente: lo que quiera hacer hágalo por su cuenta y compártalo a la comunidad. Dada esta filosofÃa, la forma de proceder serÃa que cada persona que crea que puede mejorar la situación de VATSIM en Colombia armara un grupo de trabajo de máximo 4 personas con las que tengan claro y acordado el proyecto que quieren seguir. Una vez conformado el grupo con los roles de cada persona bien definidos, empezar a redactar una propuesta que toque los intereses de la comunidad y que explique claramente cómo resolver la problemática que se experimenta actualmente. Posteriormente empezar a confeccionar una página web con los contenidos que se deben tener en una página de un FIR/vACC (un ejemplo ejemplar serÃa COLATC) y redactar las polÃticas de entrenamiento conforme a la polÃtica de la división (VATSUR). Cuando se haya hecho todo esto, se presentarÃa la idea a VATSUR y a la comunidad por medio del foro, listas de correo y demás. Posiblemente haya más de una propuesta y en ese caso serÃa decisión de la directiva de VATSUR elegir la mejor propuesta acorde con lo que piense la comunidad y la experiencia de sus integrantes. VATSUR está en la obligación de evaluar cada propuesta y en caso de no obtener respuesta pueden dirigirse directamente a VATSIM. Para empezar, serÃa interesante que cada grupo de personas envÃe un correo a la lista y a las directivas de VATSUR para que haya constancia de que empezaron el trabajo y quiénes conforman el grupo, asumiendo que VATSUR puede poner una fecha lÃmite de entrega de propuestas. Además, me parece importante que cada cual haga lo que crea, a su gusto, sin importar la edad de quien presente la propuesta mientras la misma sea seria. Reflexión a los miembros de Colombia. Me parece muy triste encontrarme e-mails como este: Si no esta deacuerdo bien pueda tienes las puertas abiertas nadie te va a rogar que te quedes, al final de cuentas la gente termina regresando como sucedio con estos señores cardenas Y Salamanca que vieron que en IVAO no se pudieron tomar el poder, ahora quieren tom[Mod - Happy Thoughts]lo a la brava aca en VAtsim de nuevo, desde que tengo uso de razon en ninguna red nunca se ha manejado democraticamente, por lo que esto es como si fuera una empresa con Altos ejecutivos y todo, ¿ o a caso alguna ves han visto ustedes que los empleados escojan al presidente de la compañia?. Enviado por: [email protected] Sinceramente, da pena leerlo, y no me explico cómo hizo este individuo para escribirlo. Yo respeto la posición que el autor de este correo pueda tener, pero no comparto la forma en que la expresa. Hace ataques directos con muy poca argumentación y mucha menos ortografÃa, además de no respetarle a quien iba dirigido la calidad de miembro y su facultad de expresión. Espero, por respeto a la comunidad y además por orgullo que quien escriba un correo, argumente bien lo que dice y respete la alteridad que se puede presentar en cualquier comunidad. Gracias por su atención, Juan MartÃn. 842109. Juan Ricrado MartÃn Vázquez Director de VATSAM VATSAM1 [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Ricardo Martin Vázque Posted July 15, 2008 at 05:40 AM Posted July 15, 2008 at 05:40 AM Dear Members, I write this email to propose what should be a good approach to the course that these community should take. I write this based on the obvious unconformities that exist against FLYCOL, that in my personal opinion are very well founded and structured. I will divide this post into themes to ease its reading. About FLYCOL. Although it is not very convenient to accept, FLYCOL is anything but a serious work. It has no clear information in its webpage. The division of responsibilities of its staff is not well-defined, and its quality – as it is obvious- is even more questionable. The person responsible for it, Harold Triana, has not even officially commented on the situation, which is irresponsible and demonstrates the lack of leadership. The purpose of the organization, which should be to promote the traffic in the Colombian FIR/vACC and provide training, has not been fulfilled. Now, based on the facts that involve FLYCOL, it is undeniable that it is not the path to follow. Proposal for the Community. Many people write emails expressing their unconformity, which to a certain point is good, but not enough. In such a peculiar community, experience shows that the best way to achieve results is to have as philosophy the following: whatever you want to do, do it by yourself and share it with the community. With this philosophy in mind, the way to proceed would be for each person that believes can do something to improve the situation of VATSIM Colombia to build up a workgroup of maximum 4 individuals that share and have agrred on the project that they want to follow. Once this group is made up, with very well defined roles for each individual, a proposal should be made that appeal to the interests of the community and that clearly explains how to solve the current problems. After this commence the building of a website with the contents that a FIR/vACC should have (an example would be COLATC) and make a draft of the policies of training in accordance to the division’s policies (VATSUR). When all of this is made, the idea would be presented to VATSUR and to the community through the forum, mailing lists, and others. There will possibly be more than one proposal and in this case it would be the decision of VATSUR to choose the best proposal according to what the community thinks and the experience of its members. VATSUR should evaluate each proposal and if there is no response, then VATSIM should be contacted directly. To start, it would be interesting that each group of persons send a message to the list and to VATSUR staff so that there is proof of the members of the workgroup and the members of the group, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that VATSUR establishes a deadline for submitting the proposals. Moreover, I believe that each person should do what they believe in, to their liking, regardless of the age of the proposers, as long as it is a serious proposal. Thought for the members of Colombia It is very sad to find emails like these: Translated If you do not agree, there you go, the doors are open, no one will beg you to stay, at the end people end up coming back like what happened with Cardenas and Salamanca, that saw they could not overtake power in IVAO and now they want to overtake it again in VATSIM, since I remember in either network there has been a democratic handling, which makes VATSIM like a company with high executives. Or have you ever seen employees electing the president of a company? Sent by [email protected] Sincerely, I am ashamed of reading it, and I cannot understand how could this individual have written it. I respect the position that the author of this post can have, but I do not agree in the way he expresses himself. He directly attacks fellow members with very little argumentation and even less spelling skills. Moreover not regarding for the person he was writing to his member standing and his expression rights. I hope, for the respect that this community deserves, and also for pride, that whoever writes or posts a message have correct arguments and shows respect for the difference in opinions that can arise in any community. Thank you for your attention, Juan Martin 842109 Juan Ricrado MartÃn Vázquez Director de VATSAM VATSAM1 [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Cousens 936764 Posted July 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM Posted July 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM Probably the great problem is to be thinking about FLYCOL and COLATC instead of thinking of COLOMBIA. We need to think of COLOMBIA as a team where not necessarily everyone thinks the same way. I have been looking for sugestions and didn´t get answers yet ==> http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?p=240199#240199 I am having conversations everyday with Harold Triana and we are being [Mod - Happy Thoughts]isted by our Operations Director, José GarcÃa, building up a work plan with specific tasks and deadlines. One more time I invite all Colombian members to participate with us. My email [email protected] is opened for all of you. But please be part of the solution. We are not thinking about a new Staff. We are just thinking about solutions. Probablemente el gran problema es que estamos todos pensando en FLYCOL o en COLATC, en lugar de pensar en COLOMBIA. Debemos comenzar a pensar en COLOMBIA como un equipo en donde no necesariamente todos piensen igual. Quise que me manden sugerencias, pero aún no obtuve respuestas ==> http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?p=240199#240199 Estoy en constante contacto con el Sr. Harold Triana, y estamos siendo asistidos por nuestro Director de Operaciones, delineando un plan de trabajo con tareas y vencimientos puntuales. Una vez más los invito a todos Ustedes a participar del proyecto. Mi correo [email protected] está disponible para todos Ustedes. Por favor, sea parte de la solución. No buscamos un nuevo Staff para Colombia. Solo buscamos soluciones. Sergio Cousens VATSUR1 Director División Sur América [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswaldo Florez Molinares 9 Posted July 16, 2008 at 01:32 AM Posted July 16, 2008 at 01:32 AM Cordial Saludo a Todos Desde hace varios meses he venido realizando varios análisis con respecto a la red de VATSIM-COLOMBIA. Lo último que se me ocurrió fue seleccionar algunos correos relevantes de distintos foros y datos estadÃsticos de Vatsur; consulte con amigos Psicólogos y otros expertos en resolución de conflictos (Externos al tema de Aviación Virtual) y concluyen varias bases de la problemática: Primaria: El Sentido de Pertenencia Secundaria: Falta de Liderazgo Tercera: Regionalismo y otros. Me llamo mucho la atención que personas externas perciben estos problemas como bases y los pongo a consideración de ustedes ¿Sera que esto si esta Sucediendo? ¿Dónde esta el Conflict Resolution Manager? Bueno YO quiero opinar y agregar propuestas. Primero debemos ser conscientes que el manejo del FIR por directivas de FLYCOL, que ya va para el año; no ha sido el mejor mucho menos los resultados. Si realizamos evaluación de gestión por competencias, esta no seria aprobada. En fin las evidencias lo demuestran y eso se reflejo en el que para la Aviación Virtual especÃficamente para VATSIM-COLOMBIA, era el CAMPUS PARTY un evento Apoteósico. Le hice seguimiento toda la semana por ServInfo y VATSIM.net. y en Colombia no hubo acogida con buen control, constancia de este, mucho menos afluencia de Pilotos; un evento donde toda la Red de VATSIM-COlOMBIA debÃa estar organizada y sincronizada para cubrir un control por lo menos de 12 a 20 horas continuas por dÃa. ¿Qué habrá pasado? ¿Sera que falto Promoción del Evento?. Por otro lado no se sabe cual es el STAFF COMPLETO de FLYCOL (director de entrenamiento, director de operaciones, jefe de pilotos, etc.). No es posible que a la fecha solo Existan 6 Controladores Calificados en FLYCOL: 1 SUP… 4 INST…. 1 CTR …. 8 STU+ y 22 STU. Esto demuestra el Déficit en el FIR de Colombia donde hay a la Fecha 724 miembros. Bueno no hay que llorar sobre leche derramada. El señor Richard Jenkins – Presidente VATSIM, Nos hace un llamado a la integración de la comunidad, de manera que hagámoslo pero con propuestas concretas. PROPONGO: HACER CAMBIOS!!!!! 1. CREAR UN NUEVO STAFF (es lo mejor); ESTE DEBE SER UN GRUPO DE PERSONAS IDONEAS, RESPONSABLES Y AJENAS A LOS GRUPOS EN CONFLICTO, CAPACES DE INTEGRARLOS PARA UN TRABAJO EN COMUN. 2. CAMBIO DE NOMBRE O RAZO SOCIAL DE IGUAL MANERA LA PAGINA WEB, ESTO REFRESCARIA LA IMAGEN Y EL AMBIENTE DE LA COMUNIDAD. 3. PROPONGO QUE SE CONFORMEN GRUPOS DE TRABAJO POR (TMA)s (personas que vivan o sean de los distintos TMAs) PARA DESARROLLAR PROPUESTAS AL MEJORAMIENTO DE VATSIM-COLOMBIA. Estas son pilares que conllevan a otras ideas. Es que debe salir un lÃder que no genere resentimientos, discordias e inconformidades. Que se asesore de personas de la comunidad, que escuche a todos los que hacemos parte de esta comunidad. Que haga sentir con gran sentido de pertenencia y liderazgo. Al Sr. Richard Jenkins le hago conocer de este correo de una persona que es Externa a los grupos o personas en conflicto. Realmente el problema si existe, y usted tiene la dirección para resolverlo; ya sea recordando al Director de FLYCOL sobre sus funciones o nombrar una comisión que facilite la resolución de este problema. Todo esto por el bien de una comunidad entusiasta que quiere mantenerse volando en la red con profesionalismo y realismo. PD. Sin intensiones distintas al mejoramiento del FIR COLOMBIA y de un ambiente cordial y agradable; me ofrezco para ayudar a la solución de este conflicto. Att: OSWALDO FLOREZ MOLINARES PID: 917701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Blackburn Posted July 16, 2008 at 10:25 AM Posted July 16, 2008 at 10:25 AM ¿Dónde esta el Conflict Resolution Manager? I am here. No es posible que a la fecha solo Existan 6 Controladores Calificados en FLYCOL: 1 SUP… 4 INST…. 1 CTR …. 8 STU+ y 22 STU. Supervisors are not [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to an vACC, Division or Region. Supervisors operate across the whole world. Those members who have Columbia as their vACC are: 2 SUP 3 INS 1 Senior Controller 14 Controllers 19 Senior Students 41 Students. Of course some of these may be inactive. Supervisors and Instructors however are required to maintain a presence or have their rating reduced to the previous rating. PROPONGO: HACER CAMBIOS!!!!! This is something we want to see but it has to be in the best interest of Columbia and it's members. Al Sr. Richard Jenkins le hago conocer de este correo de una persona que es Externa a los grupos o personas en conflicto. Realmente el problema si existe, y usted tiene la dirección para resolverlo; ya sea recordando al Director de FLYCOL sobre sus funciones o nombrar una comisión que facilite la resolución de este problema. Todo esto por el bien de una comunidad entusiasta que quiere mantenerse volando en la red con profesionalismo y realismo. Richard, Roland (VP Regions) and I, along with the other members of the BoG have had many emails in regard to Columbia. Most are only showing problems, with very few showing potential solutions. Any workable solution must come from within Columbia and can't look back, only forwards. PD. Sin intensiones distintas al mejoramiento del FIR COLOMBIA y de un ambiente cordial y agradable; me ofrezco para ayudar a la solución de este conflicto. This is what I hope we all seek! Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Correa 930456 Posted July 20, 2008 at 06:08 PM Posted July 20, 2008 at 06:08 PM Mr Jenkins, i dont know what think about OUR situation in colombia!...you dont say nothing and everybody is waiting for your answers. just say anything about, even it´ll be yes or not or "what i say..." WE´ll be really thankfull with your help or if you just show us the way for a make the changes or build the solution or say to us some solution. thanks a lot Ricardo Correa Arias 930456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Blackburn Posted July 20, 2008 at 06:12 PM Posted July 20, 2008 at 06:12 PM :?: Mr Jenkins, i dont know what think about OUR situation in colombia!...you dont say nothing and everybody is waiting for your answers. just say anything about, even it´ll be yes or not or "what i say..." WE´ll be really thankfull with your help or if you just show us the way for a make the changes or build the solution or say to us some solution. Any workable solution must come from within Columbia Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Correa 930456 Posted July 20, 2008 at 07:37 PM Posted July 20, 2008 at 07:37 PM thanks for your answer, but...we need your or Mr Jenkins public clearance, that just say "ok you´re cleared for a EXECUTE an a solution". or something cause here en the ATC, and COLATC mailing list, the people that is with flycol will start to say a lot of apologies against the FIR admin solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Pérez 905371 Posted July 20, 2008 at 08:11 PM Posted July 20, 2008 at 08:11 PM Hi... This is the second time... When the people fight against FLYCOL, they create or start a "flash" event to say: "But look, we made an event for Colombia with FLYCOL adm"... Thats what we dont like... We dont have to fight to get an event o better control performance... Today july 20th, they have created an event and many people didnt know about it. Now...Mr. Jenkins told me that they, Cousens and him, were waiting any response from Mr. Triana, and we dont have any information about it, becase a lot of proof were presented to Mr. Jenkins. The bad trainning stills around... Many controller dont know that the departure airport can be the same as altern. Thats something to take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Andres Ramirez Hena Posted July 30, 2008 at 01:23 PM Posted July 30, 2008 at 01:23 PM SI TANTO ALEGAN QUE EL FIR ESTA MAL QUE A LA GENTE NO LE GUSTA, QUE NO SE CONTROLA PORQUE APARECEN ESTAS CIFRAS QUE SON LAS ULTIMAS SACADAS DE VATSUR, TAMBIEN LA CAMBIARON COMO LO HICIERON CON FLYCOL O QUE??? http://vatsur.org/home/estadisticas.php, OE, YA COLOQUEMONOS SERIOS Y EN VEZ DE ESTAR MOLESTANDO CADA RATO CON LO MISMO Y PERDIENDO TANTO EL TIEMPO PORQUE NO SE PONEN HACER ALGO PRODUCTIVO Y COMIENZAN DESDE YA ARREGLAR Y HACER LO QUE LE FALTA AL FIR, Y ES QUE NECESARIAMENTE TIENE QUE CAMBIAR DE DIRECTOR ?? REFLEXIONEN DEJEN LAS ENVIDIAS OMEE!! Y EN VEZ DE ESTAR CON ESA BOBADITA QUE MANTIENEN CADA RATO COMIENZEN HACER ALGO PS LOS QUE DICEN QUE LE FALTA MUCHO . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Hernandez Guerra 93 Posted July 31, 2008 at 07:21 AM Posted July 31, 2008 at 07:21 AM Well...i just don't give a damn about who's right or not, i don't even have to say that i'm so very much annoyed about certain things people say in this forum. I'm the most neutral character here, if you read this Richard you know it's the only way it is, we talked 'bout that the other day i was at PBI approach scope. I wanna make some stuff clear here. 1. While i was an ATCv instructor in Colombian FIR i gave my best to get students ready to give online atc services, the most of them gave their best as well to make it real. So it's not fare that they say the same about all present administration members, that situation really piss me off. 2. Some members say that the last few events have been done just to show the world there is atc activity yet. But they all are wrong 'cause even the people who is making those events come to life are good ones, no one from the present Colombian staff did to much about it including me(I'm not from staff actually). Those members do it just to have fun. There is a lot of people getting their hearts into it, studying and getting better just to have a good time, no pressure just fun. just like Abraham Lincoln said once "I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him". What it just seems to me is that if you are happy with that you are doing things will go ok for you and that's what a lot of people like me think in Colombia. Finally i ask just a little respect for the ones who are doing things to improve themselves and do a great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Pérez 905371 Posted August 25, 2008 at 03:02 AM Posted August 25, 2008 at 03:02 AM Mr. Jenkins. A time ago, you said that you were waiing for Cousens response... and we have not any idea about what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jenkins Posted August 25, 2008 at 03:39 AM Posted August 25, 2008 at 03:39 AM Mr. Jenkins. A time ago, you said that you were waiing for Cousens response... and we have not any idea about what happened. You may have noticed that the Division Director and Regional Director need to be replaced. Once that has been done, there will be more news. RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Cousens 936764 Posted August 25, 2008 at 11:06 AM Posted August 25, 2008 at 11:06 AM Colombia is working hard to get things done. As a matter of fact, I could see this weekend that Colombian skies were the most dinamic and with a good number of pilots (number 1 in SA). I am personally having too much work in my real life, and decided to step appart the division 2 months ago. I am just waiting for VATSIM to find my replacement. Thanks to all. Sergio Cousens VATSUR1 Director División Sur América [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos A. Cardenas Salazar Posted August 25, 2008 at 04:16 PM Posted August 25, 2008 at 04:16 PM Colombia has many pilots, so Colombia needs ATC services. Actually the atc is poor and bad because there are no instructors and committed staff. Vatsim is losing its purpurse in Colombia. We don’t hava a network which provides flight simulation and air traffic control but flight and unicom simulation. We hope that the new Division Director and Regional Director review the training process because Colombia Should has an excelent syllabus and resources. If none, I can provide you. Also we hope that the new South America Staff sponsor a new FIR chief to Colombia and with this action the Instructors will encourage return, new members become a good ontrollers , old controller members provide ATC service again and that Colombia will has a useful and decent website. Carlos A. Cárdenas S. ID: 819945 VATSIM Supervisor Colombia vACC/FIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto Salamanca 810743 Posted September 14, 2020 at 12:30 AM Posted September 14, 2020 at 12:30 AM So, couple of years have passed since this discussion happened.... But has time proven Mr. Jenkins and Mr. Blackburn wrong? Did they mistakenly chose sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Arturo Charry Meneses Posted September 17, 2020 at 03:40 AM Posted September 17, 2020 at 03:40 AM Alberto, it's been quite a long time. I'm glad to tell you that VATSIM Colombia has improved considerably under its current administration, and that you're invited to our WhatsApp channel, just as anyone interested in our vACC. Regarding the things done in the past, I must say I'm not a good enough referee on these matters (member since 2011, no real aviation experience besides sitting as a passenger). Please don't waste time on that, since I'm positive we can instead enjoy/work now to improve our future. Daniel A. Charry M. - SKGY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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