Stuart Guberman 897696 Posted September 19, 2005 at 06:24 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 06:24 PM Norm: That's what I just said lol Student 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted September 19, 2005 at 06:56 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 06:56 PM Actually Stuart you said that squawking 7500 will get you kicked off by a sup or admin. What many don't realize, because they have rightly never tried, is that the system automatically kicks you off the moment you dial in 7500. No sup or admin intervention required. It used to be the same way with 7600, but I think that was changed. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Guberman 897696 Posted September 19, 2005 at 07:06 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 07:06 PM Ahh, my "bad" Student 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Blackburn Posted September 19, 2005 at 07:18 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 07:18 PM 7600 is allowed again. Remember of course that by nature of VATSIM that .msg always works so if you are doing a radio failure you still need to answer the .msg if only to say "Im practising a radio failure." Same rules for 7700 apply. Erm, moving quickly back on topic....... Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Larroulet Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:22 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:22 PM is there a 1 second or so period of tolerance, so that someone trying to dial 7700 doesnt get kicked when going through 7500? I know, easy way around it is to change digits in another sequence but hey, it may happen Javier Larroulet (C3) - Chile vACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Brummett Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:38 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:38 PM is there a 1 second or so period of tolerance, so that someone trying to dial 7700 doesnt get kicked when going through 7500? I know, easy way around it is to change digits in another sequence but hey, it may happen I think it's two cycles of updates, which would make it 10 seconds. Mark Brummett Website owner, http://www.zkcartcc.org ZKC Events Co-ordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:39 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:39 PM There's anywhere from a zero to five second tolerance. If you have 7500 dialed into the transponder at the very moment that SB3 or FSInn sends a position update packet (which includes your squawk code) then you'll get disconnected. As far as I know, the server doesn't wait until the next position packet (5 seconds later) to see if you still have 7500 dialed in, but I'm not sure ... someone from the tech department would have to answer that. So, the chances are pretty slim that you would be p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing through 7500 on your way to 7700 at the exact moment that SB3/FSInn sends a position update. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Johnson 814050 Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:47 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 08:47 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" Jim Johnson VP - Membership (VATGOV12) j.johnson(at)vatsim.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Norambuena 857610 Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:03 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:03 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Pablo Norambuena AAC/ZAU/ZAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Steinberg 939662 Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:25 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:25 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? Andrew Steinberg C-1, VATUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Norambuena 857610 Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:27 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:27 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? No, but several real life controllers have told me otherwise, as well as how the OKC academy is doing it, and CTI schools. Pablo Norambuena AAC/ZAU/ZAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Koch 852831 Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:54 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:54 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? No, but several real life controllers have told me otherwise, as well as how the OKC academy is doing it, and CTI schools. I have nothing meaningful to add to the topic at hand, I just kinda like the way this thing looks when you quote a quote which is quoting a quote itself... Cheers, Andre Koch Director VACC-SAG [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Miller 873677 Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:57 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 09:57 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? No, but several real life controllers have told me otherwise, as well as how the OKC academy is doing it, and CTI schools. I have nothing meaningful to add to the topic at hand, I just kinda like the way this thing looks when you quote a quote which is quoting a quote itself... Indeed it does. Andrew Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Williams Posted September 19, 2005 at 10:10 PM Posted September 19, 2005 at 10:10 PM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? No, but several real life controllers have told me otherwise, as well as how the OKC academy is doing it, and CTI schools. I have nothing meaningful to add to the topic at hand, I just kinda like the way this thing looks when you quote a quote which is quoting a quote itself... Indeed it does. Who cares what it is... One means it's a Frenchie and the other means it's steak sauce! LOL Thank you, Lance W. Hundreds of Real-World Airlines and Routes for you to fly at www.ndbair.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Johnson 814050 Posted September 20, 2005 at 03:40 AM Posted September 20, 2005 at 03:40 AM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? No, but several real life controllers have told me otherwise, as well as how the OKC academy is doing it, and CTI schools. Pablo, Pending a notice in the 7110.65 or other directive, the correct callsign for Air Force One is "A1" regardless of what you might have heard a real life controller say. Jim Johnson VP - Membership (VATGOV12) j.johnson(at)vatsim.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Norambuena 857610 Posted September 20, 2005 at 03:59 AM Posted September 20, 2005 at 03:59 AM If flying as AF1 suits your fancy, then by all means DO IT! Air France one?... sounds like a nice flight (hehehe, kidding) If you wanna fly Air Force One go out and do it (remember, callsign is A1), just remember what has been said earlier on this thread: you'll get no special treatment, no priority, no nothing other than normal ATC service. cheers! Actually is AF1 A1 is Air Force One as in like the USAF or something, like R1 would be Army 1, VV1 is Navy 1, etc... AF1 is Air Force One, the Presidential Aircraft AFR1 is Air France One \ That is incorrect. The correct callsign for Air Force One, regardless of aircraft type is "A1" That is still incorrect, AF1 is the NEW OFFICIAL callsign for Air Force One Do you have proof? No, but several real life controllers have told me otherwise, as well as how the OKC academy is doing it, and CTI schools. Pablo, Pending a notice in the 7110.65 or other directive, the correct callsign for Air Force One is "A1" regardless of what you might have heard a real life controller say. I think I said the OKC academy is teaching it this way, as well as CTI schools, and I said more than just ONE controller. Pablo Norambuena AAC/ZAU/ZAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Clark Posted September 20, 2005 at 06:29 AM Posted September 20, 2005 at 06:29 AM Pablo, Sorry, but until they change the official rules for controllers, the 7110.65, I'm going to continue to use A1 as the CORRECT callsign for Air Force One. I can't imagine why the FAA would tell -some- controllers to use a different callsign but not to amend the official rule book which all of us use, and I'd be shocked to hear that the Academy was teaching the wrong thing. AFAIK, there's only a few possible explanations for this: -The people you talked to were wrong. (It DOES happen - not all FAA controllers are GOOD controllers, and not all controllers actually FOLLOW the rules in the 7110.65) -You may have misunderstood them. Note that the callsign for planes carrying the First Lady and Bush's kids would be A1F - is it possible that's what they were talking about? -The FAA p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed some interim order, amending the 7110.65, which changed the callsign, which hasn't YET been published. There's no logical reason for doing this, though, as I can't see any advantage to changing the callsign from A1 to AF1 - it goes against the whole logic of the callsign system. -The FAA has p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed some SECRET order, which it doesn't want anyone to know about, because that extra F someone gives the President some sort of extra protection??? ANYWAY: You got me reminiscing, so here's an image of my proudest moment as a real-world controller - the flight strip of when I personally got to work Air Force One. Please note that the callsign is: "A1". Jeff Clark FAA Air Traffic Control Specialist (Retired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Steinberg 939662 Posted September 20, 2005 at 01:54 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 01:54 PM I believe A1F stands for Air Force One Foxtrot. When Foxtrot is added it means the First Lady and presidential family are flying, with the President. Andrew Steinberg C-1, VATUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Larroulet Posted September 20, 2005 at 04:00 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 04:00 PM wow, that's a vintage flight strip.... A1 is a B707 Javier Larroulet (C3) - Chile vACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Guberman 897696 Posted September 20, 2005 at 04:25 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 04:25 PM At the inauguration of the jet-era, it was a B707. Recent presidents have had modified B742s or B744s as Air Force One's. Student 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:16 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:16 PM wow, that's a vintage flight strip.... A1 is a B707 When I saw that it was a 707 in that strip, I looked it up on the net, and found that they didn't switch to the 747s until 1990, so it's not too old, relatively speaking. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Clark Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:32 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:32 PM Actually, that strip is from 1994. It's from President Clinton's visit to Los Angeles to view the damage done by the Northridge earthquake. Because he wanted to land close to the area affected, and because he didn't want to interrupt the relief efforts that were being conducted out of KLAX, he flew into Burbank Airport (my old stomping grounds), whose 6000' runway couldn't accommodate the B747's - so they dug out the B707 they used before the B747's came online. Of course, because a sitting president was on board, that plane became A1 instead of the normal one you think of. Trivia: Before Clinton used it to fly to Burbank, that plane was most famously used to fly JFK's body back to Washington from Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:36 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:36 PM Interesting stuff Jeff. Do you know if the 707 is still maintained to operational status for just such reasons? Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Plumley 814838 Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:43 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 05:43 PM Air Force One is the air traffic control callsign of any U.S. Air Force aircraft carrying the President of the United States. Since 1990, the presidential fleet has consisted of two specifically-configured, highly customized Boeing 747-200B series aircraft—tail numbers 28000 and 29000—with Air Force designation VC-25A. While these planes are only referred to as "Air Force One" while the president is on board, the term is commonly used to describe any of two aircraft normally used by and maintained by the U.S. Air Force solely for the president. The VC-25A is capable of flying 12,600 km (7,800 miles) — roughly one-third of the distance around the world — without refueling and can accommodate more than 70 p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]engers. Before these planes entered service, two Boeing 707-320B-type aircraft — tail numbers 26000 and 27000—had operated as Air Force One starting in 1962. Since its inception, Air Force One has become a symbol of presidential power and prestige. These aircraft are maintained and operated as military operations by the Presidential Airlift Group, part of Air Mobility Command's 89th Airlift Wing, based at Andrews Air Force Base in Suitland, Maryland. The President is often flown in a U.S. Marine Corps helicopter, callsign Marine One, between the Andrews AFB and the White House. Similarly, a U.S. Army aircraft carrying the President has the callsign Army One; U.S. Navy aircraft are called Navy One. (As of October 2004, the only "Navy One" has been the S-3B Viking that carried President George W. Bush to USS Abraham Lincoln on May 1, 2003.) A civilian plane carrying the President has the callsign "Executive One," and a plane carrying a member of the First Family will be called "Executive One Foxtrot." Aircraft which have formerly served as Air Force One are on display in the Presidential Hangar of the National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB near Dayton, Ohio (Sacred Cow, Independence, Columbine III, SAM 26000, and other smaller Presidential aircraft), as well as the Museum of Flight in Seattle, Washington (earlier VC-137B). The Boeing 707 that served as Air Force One during the 1980s (SAM 27000) is at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, but is not yet on display. A Douglas VC-118A Liftmaster used by President Kennedy is on display at the Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson, Arizona. Ozark Virtual Airlines--Click for a true retro VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Guberman 897696 Posted September 20, 2005 at 06:02 PM Posted September 20, 2005 at 06:02 PM Very interesting information, Mark. I do appreciate the history lesson. Thanks. Student 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts