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To the newbie - First Time Jitters


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Ahhh, ok, I didn't explain myself properly. So, where it says "hold" on the taxi map, that's the spot I WOULD hold, before crossing a runway, if ATC told me to. I get it. Thanks!

 

BTW, flew into CYYZ from CYOW and there was actually ATC online for Toronto..it was my first real experience with an ATC approach and I actually learned alot just from his instructions. I know I am gonna enjoy this and I recommend EVERY newbie get in the air ASAP. Just make sure you have your departing and arriving charts prepped before you go.

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Ahhh, ok, I didn't explain myself properly. So, where it says "hold" on the taxi map, that's the spot I WOULD hold, before crossing a runway, if ATC told me to. I get it. Thanks!

Ah, gotcha -- in the case of runway crossings, it's always safer to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume you should hold and ask unless you were CLEARLY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY cleared to cross. However, as others pointed out, new FAA procedures are being implemented now which prohibit controllers from giving broad crossing clearances like that and require them to issue specific crossing clearance for each intervening runway.

 

Long story short -- you weren't the only one confused on that issue, hence the change in rules

Cheers,

-R.

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Holding points when taxiing? Not sure what you mean.
*blink*

Well, a hold short line is hardly a point, now, is it? It's got a whole another dimension! Two, if you count the width of the line..

 

To the originator of this subject: In Canada, and now/soon in the US, if you need to cross a runway, you'll be given a clearance like: "Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12, hold short runway 08R". If you're not told to cross the runway in your taxi clearance, feel free to stop short and ask for clarification. It's likely an inactive runway, though, 'cause if it were active, you'd likely be told to hold short, so they can get the timing of your crossing to be more precise.

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Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12, hold short runway 08R"

 

hmm, mean hold short runway 8L? no need to issue the hold short for the runway you are [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning, unless they have to cross it to get to the other side or somethin. otherwise its just "Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12" or "Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12, hold short runway 8L"

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Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12, hold short runway 08R"

 

hmm, mean hold short runway 8L? no need to issue the hold short for the runway you are [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning, unless they have to cross it to get to the other side or somethin. otherwise its just "Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12" or "Runway 08R, taxi via J, L, cross runway 12, hold short runway 8L"

I was taught to always give the hold short for the runway they'll be using, too—I'm guessing that some people took the taxi clearance as clearance to enter the runway, at some point. Sounds redundant to me, I'll admit, but that's what I was told to do, and haven't heard any other controllers correct me for saying it yet.

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hehe,

good idea, but just remember back to that JFK ground controller who went nearly nuts while communicating with foreign pilots, a hard time for him, an all time goodie for us and a very clear sign, that we need an international phraseo...

 

Flo

 

Actually if it's some of the examples I'm thinking of, it's a very clear sign that if we're going to have English as the international language of aviation then there needs to be some standard level of English speaking and comprehension. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgCAbTMC3Qg&feature=related

 

I'm pretty good at hearing through accents, but this is insane. Neither of them seem to truly understand the other.

 

Now let me be clear, I'm talking about Real world NOT VATSIM.

Steven Caffey (SY) ZLA Controller

"A mile of highway gets you one mile, but a mile of runway can take you anywhere."

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technically its not new in the US either. its "new" in the sense that you actually have to give the holding/crossing instructions now when the taxi route goes across a runway, where as before, the norm was that we didnt unless we actually needed to have them hold. the instruction has always been the same tho if we did issue the hold. thats pretty much the only change.

 

i get what you mean tho. no biggy, some of us are more lax about these things then others

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Hi everyone,

 

I hope i'm posting this in the right thread. If not please move it where it should be.

Well, I did my first connect to Vatsim yesterday. Here are the issues i'm having:

 

1. I was nervous like never before...lol

 

2. Flight plan:

I created my flight plan using real world routes. Entered it in the Fsinn interface. My question is: When requesting it to ATC by pressing the request button, do I wait for a vocal response to the request before actually sending it to ATC (by pressing the submit button)? Or, can i just go ahaid and submit it right away?

 

Second question about flight plans:

Is filling the STAR at the arrival airport an obligation or can I just get vectored in?

If it's an obligation, where can I get the info on what star is in use at the moment of my flight?

 

Sorry about all the questions. I just want to do everything right and not piss off ATC....LOL

 

Thanks

 

Christian Verner 1164995

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Welcome to Vatsim. Simply hit submit, and then when your ready give ATC a call for clearance. I'm not quite sure what the request button does, but I don't think it's used for anything. Good job using real routes, you can also get routes from simroutes.com.

 

In the US, you can simply file to a nearby fix or navaid(vor, ndb) and be vectored. STARs are preferred however, and you can use anyone you want at anytime, with a few exceptions that are listed on the chart. When filing a STAR make sure to have the chart which is available on chartfinder.vatsim.net in the US,UK and Australia and at the FIR/vACCs website outside of the US. If you don't know where to get a chart, ask the ATC or on the forum.

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Welcome to VATSIM Christian, don't be sorry about asking qns, in fact we are glad you are asking qns. The point is to learn.

 

1. Yup, we have all been there, that's what this thread is all about.

 

2. The "Request from Tower" button will show you the updated FP if it has been modified by ATC, that is if you want it immediately. A + sign will show up before the route indicating either an amendment or an [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment of sqk code has been made.

 

Some STARs are runway dependent, not all of them are. Based on where you are coming from, pick the appropriate STAR. If there is more than one available, then you can certainly pick any one of them. Except in major events, you are welcome to use any STAR that is appropriate for the rwy in use. If ATC is there, they will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign runway in use. If not, either pick the rwy that most aligns with the wind or follow what others are following at the airport.

 

Cheers and welcome again!!

When is your next Flight||VATSIM HitSquad Member, ZOA/ZAK/GANDER/P1

 

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I created my flight plan using real world routes. Entered it in the Fsinn interface. My question is: When requesting it to ATC by pressing the request button, do I wait for a vocal response to the request before actually sending it to ATC (by pressing the submit button)? Or, can i just go ahaid and submit it right away?

Fill it out and hit "Send to Tower" and then wait a few moments before verbally requesting an IFR clearance on the appropriate frequency. The "Request from Tower" I believe is for instances in which you have a flight plan filed with VATSIM but it's not currently in your FSInn for some reason -- examples would be if you filed it and then got disconnected, or if you filed it from a web interface and then started your simulator.

 

Second question about flight plans:

Is filling the STAR at the arrival airport an obligation or can I just get vectored in?

If it's an obligation, where can I get the info on what star is in use at the moment of my flight?

If you're flying in the US, you create your entire route including SID and STAR before you file it. Most US STARs are applicable regardless of the operating direction of the field at the time -- they're either set up so that ATC vectors you to the approach after a certain waypoint, or they have several paths depicted. (There are a FEW that are specific either to certain runways, certain aircraft types, or certian times of day, but these all say so somewhere on the chart.) Choose whichever STAR makes sense based on the direction you are coming from, although at any point ATC can override it and start vectoring you towards the approach. If you choose not to file a STAR, the Clearance controller may possibly try to amend your route to include one, or the arrival controller may ask you to follow one -- but in either case you can just say you're "unable, not equipped" and they should help you out.

 

If you're flying in Europe, the STAR is apparently [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned "on the fly" by ATC. I dunno exactly how that works except that if you are [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a STAR you don't have a chart for or can't fly for whatever reason, just say "unable, not equipped" and again, the controller should help you out.

Cheers,

-R.

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I created my flight plan using real world routes. Entered it in the Fsinn interface. My question is: When requesting it to ATC by pressing the request button, do I wait for a vocal response to the request before actually sending it to ATC (by pressing the submit button)? Or, can i just go ahaid and submit it right away?

Fill it out and hit "Send to Tower" and then wait a few moments before verbally requesting an IFR clearance on the appropriate frequency. The "Request from Tower" I believe is for instances in which you have a flight plan filed with VATSIM but it's not currently in your FSInn for some reason -- examples would be if you filed it and then got disconnected, or if you filed it from a web interface and then started your simulator.

 

It can also be used to update your FP information locally if ATC modifies your flight plan. IE, if they change your SID, it won't be displayed in FSInn until you click "request from tower".

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If you're flying in Europe, the STAR is apparently [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned "on the fly" by ATC. I dunno exactly how that works except that if you are [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a STAR you don't have a chart for or can't fly for whatever reason, just say "unable, not equipped" and again, the controller should help you out.

 

It works in the way that when enroute area will call you up a bit before your descent, this is how it would sound if you came and flew in Sweden:

"SAS521 cleared to Arlanda via Trosa2V (TRS2V in the charts) arrival for runway 26, when ready descend FL110" it could also end with "descend FL110" or "report ready for descent" or something similar, but it's always the same format. "Cleared to [destination] via [sTAR] arrival for runway [number]".

 

Unless you fly in germany where they love RNAV transitions and don't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign stars (almost forget that every time I fly there).

Johan Grauers

Event Coordinator - vACC Scandinavia

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Thanks guys! I appreciate the support.

 

I flew again yesterday (CYYZ to KJFK). I have another question:

 

At CYYZ, there was no controler in range so I went ahaid without requesting IFR clearence. Of course I was checking radar to see if any other planes where near to avoid collisions and when I saw that it was safe I took off following my flight plan. Is this OK?

 

Also, When neering KJFK, again, no controler at the airport in question but I did have a controler in range so I went ahaid and contacted him to let him know I existed and what my intentions where. He then replied telling me that he was not controling KJFK and that he could not do much for me. My thiking was that it was better to tell someone my intentions than not telling anyone. Was this the right procedure? I also advised him when I was descending and when I got to my final approach. He then replied "As I told you before, I am not taking care of that airport". All i wanted to do was advise him of my position to avoid conflicts with other airplanes in the vacinity and to be safe. He was controling KLGA (pretty close). Did I do this the correct way?

 

Thanks

 

Chris

pilot.ashx?ID=CXA545
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Thanks Darrol,

 

So it's OK to take off without speaking to anyone if there are no controlers in range?

There is no other procedure to do?

Yup, and UNICOM announcements of t/o, clear or rwy or landing, if there are other acft in the vicinity.

 

Also, my Fsinn chat is not working (getting an error when I connect) I use voice so my question is: Is it an obligation to have chat working?

 

Thanks again

Chris

In this forum there is a FSInn section, you can look under that, the second topic answers the chat and a lot more qns. Here is a link!! Without Chat working you can't send or receive UNICOM messages or sometimes controllers too are limited to text and you will not be able to communicate with them. So better get it resolved.

When is your next Flight||VATSIM HitSquad Member, ZOA/ZAK/GANDER/P1

 

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Ok, so a quick update from the last time I posted. Been flying SIDS and STARS everyday since my last post..usually between CYOW and CYYZ. I've found the controllers to be very forgiving and helpful so far. They vector me almost immediately upon takeoff, and when I'm on the correct STAR, they usually just advise what runway to expect and give me Flight level clearances. So, to say my confidence has increased in just the last week is an understatement. I'm almost comfortable enough to remove "newbie" from my comments in my flight plans. There was one controller out of CYUL who was VERY helpful and patient. He had cleared me to heading 260 and to FL260, basically at the same time. I responded I was going to heading 260 and climbing to FL26...see where this is going? He came back with "no, 260" And I responded, "that's where I'm turning to, heading 260, FL26...and he kept saying, "no your going to 260" and I kept replying, "yes, I know that!!"...Then I FINALLY clued in that he was trying to tell me I had to report my flight level as FL260, NOT FL26..so, we straightened that out and THEN...I somehow loaded the wrong flight plan from the one I had filed..even though they were from and to the same airports, just one was more direct than the other. He advised that I was not flying the route I had filed. So I started to panic thinking "I filed a different route than what I loaded into the FMC"? DAMN!....so, quickly I advised him that I was going to disconnect and start again.

 

When I finally got reconnected and back to my departure airport and once again asked for IFR clearance, he cleared me, but then said "you don't have to disconnect just because something went slightly wrong, that's what we're here for, you were doing fine up to that point" So, lesson learned is that, they WILL help you as long as you help them. I've said it before and I mean it even more now. I'M HAVING A BALL FLYING ON VATSIM! and I want to thank all you guys who make this happen everyday...it's FREAKIN AWESOME!!!

 

So to all you newbies that think, I can't do this, my best piece of advice is to fly the route offline, using your SIDS and STARS till you think you've got the gist of it, and then do it again with online ATC. IT REALLY IS more fun when they're along for the ride. And keep an eye on your radar, you'll see every point show up along the plan you've filed if you've downloaded and loaded a plan into your FMC...THEN it REALLY starts to make sense to you...trust me

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my best piece of advice is to fly the route offline, using your SIDS and STARS till you think you've got the gist of it, and then do it again with online ATC.

That's probably great advice for when you're first learning to follow realistic IFR routes, but I'll tell ya -- once you get the hang of reading and following them, there's no greater thrill (to me, anyway) than "exploring" new places. It takes a few minutes, maybe up to a half-hour of prep to find a route, file it, dig up the charts, look them over, and get your "game plan" going, but the reward of touching down at a new airport for the first time and being able to get around and follow instructions like you know the place because you're a self-proclaimed chart-reading pro... man, it's a great rush.

 

I FINALLY flew my second "wire-to-wire ATC" flight today (the first one was all with the same controller, but this one included two handoffs), and for the first time ever, I didn't make any substantial mistakes that I know of. I even realized partway through the flight that half of the STAR waypoints were missing from my GPS route, but since it wasn't an RNAV procedure, I started tracking it the "old-fashioned way" until I started getting vectors. I'm finally comfortable enough with the basics that when little glitches come about, I know how to handle them. I even had the Missed Approach Fix tuned in prior to turning final, just in case -- and didn't need it.

 

It was also my first flight without feeling the need to put "New to VATSIM and FS9" in my comments.

Cheers,

-R.

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