Jump to content

The funniest things you have ever heard while controlling.


Recommended Posts

Dunno how this is resolved by the FAA, but over here in EPWW they are (RW).

Yeah, I only speak related to the FAA when I post, but in the United States it is not a requirement (except for certain Parts of the regs): http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/faq/index.cfm?print=go#q2f

 

Not arguing it's smart. I'm just saying it's a misconception that it's a requirement. My favorite is this:

If you, as an FAA Safety Inspector, Designated Pilot Examiner, Flight Instructor, or other aviation professional are telling pilots something other than the foregoing then you are incorrect.

Kyle Rodgers

 

The content of this post, unless expressly written, refers only to those procedures in the United States of America,

following the Federal Aviation Administration Regulations thereof.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 670
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It happened to me recently that I couldn't vacate the runway and couldn't figure out why. It turned out I'd landed without gear. The controller had sent me a .contactme on final and distracted me. It

meanwhile on Belux Vacc OO-BET: approach this is OO-BET declearing an emergency, engine failure. APPROACH: roger emergency services are on the way to your currect position OO-BET: ooo there's a fie

A usual occurence on Heathrow, slightly worrying some members can't seem to operate a comp[Mod - Happy Thoughts]   ATC: BAW123, Push and start approved, face North. Pilot: Push approved, face Nor

If you don't want to use charts, you're 100% within your right. The issue is that if you do that, you have to understand that you're limiting the tools ATC can use, and therefore becoming more of a burden. My job as a controller is not to cover up your shortcomings, it is to safely expedite the flow of traffic.

 

Lets look at what an ATS is... Its an Air Traffic Service. Controllers are there to serve the pilots. Not the other way around.

The skill of a controller comes from being able to adapt to many different situations at once. You can't deny an aircraft a clearance if they don't have charts... Just give them vectors. Be patient and courteous to everyone. It makes everyone's expreience much more enjoyable.

 

Pilots take time to learn how to fly an aircraft let alone be able to fly complex GPS RNAV routes and procedures. Let them into the airspace and increase their separation buffer around them. If you only accepted "perfect" pilots into your airspace, you'd start to find that you won't have any pilots.

Steven Brown

Director of Events & Communications, VATPAC - VATSIM Australia-Pacific

Link to post
Share on other sites
The skill of a controller comes from being able to adapt to many different situations at once. You can't deny an aircraft a clearance if they don't have charts... Just give them vectors.

 

Steven, that is incorrect. While I have no problems helping people who need it, I do expect a pilot to fly what they filed and what they request. If I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign and they acknowledge it and/or read it back, I expect them to know how to fly it. If they need help, I'll either fall back on what they filed because they SHOULD know how to fly what they file or if I can/have time to I will help them out.

 

However, aircraft that file MIA..ORL..OCF..DBN..ATL that need vectors from MIA to ORL to OCF to DBN to ATL shouldn't be filing that to begin with. Sorry, I am not here to vector you on your filed route. I am here, like them, to have fun. And online, they are here to provide us as much of a service as we are them. When we have to do their job and ours, the entertainment value drops to 0 and we see no reason to continue with the session. I have had days where the number of people who refused to follow basic directions, refused to ask for help, etc. etc. bombarded me to the point I logged off. I know others have had those days too. I'll help you, but if you can't fly what you file, there isn't much I can do... and if I am busy during an event, sorry, I can't help you figure out how to fix your FMC as I would then be provided a DIS-service to everyone else in my airspace.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Romano, Kyle, if you read some of my posts you will quickly notice that I am a strong advocate for controllers. I strongly believe that you should not be teaching pilots how to connect or how to start their aircrafts or how to fly a SID/STAR. I also dislike threads containing groundless complaints/whines against controllers. By the same token, though, I do not like the tone when the ability of a pilot is reduced to what he files without any further discovery. The pilot filing DIRECT or NO GPS FMC CHARTS should not be a problem to a capable controller if that pilot can do a half decent job of following instructions and posses the patience to deal with delays cause by what he files or fails to file.

1092537.png
Link to post
Share on other sites

Clarifying my original post: The NO GPS NO FMC guy should have filed /A and stuck a NO SID remark in his remarks. What we found particularly funny was the fact that this guy was flying a 757, couldn't accept anything a halfway functional B757 would be able to fly, and then proceeded to advertise his VA. From an ATC standpoint, we found it laughable given that we couldn't pull anything like that working a radar position, which is, in my opinion, a suitable equivalent. I couldn't knock out a radar position to half of normal functionality and expect not to get a mouthful from pilots and supervisors alike. That's just the way we see it. The way the pilot flies is his prerogative, and we most certainly can handle it, as we do with all other /A aircraft, which are actually quite popular and a focus of controller training in ZDV. However, unrelated to the original funny nature of the remarks (at least in my opinion) was the fact that he also couldn't fly period.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This thought gave me a giggle tonight. This post is not to stir the pot but I think some others may laugh as I did.

 

Let's all (controllers) switch facilities for the a day and work center in an airspace we have never seen before and put the following in our controller info. "No charts, No SOPs, No LOAs, join ZXXartcc.org"

 

"N123AB you are 5 miles from the grey x on my scope cross it at an altitude that you think wont bury you in the ground, cleared to follow my grey dashed line to the longer grey line."

 

"Clear to land on the middle right south east runway"

 

"taxi to the ramp join the third taxiway to the fifth taxiway to the second taxi way to the forth taxiway from the north."

The above pertains to United States

 

37.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
The skill of a controller comes from being able to adapt to many different situations at once. You can't deny an aircraft a clearance if they don't have charts... Just give them vectors.

 

Steven, that is incorrect. While I have no problems helping people who need it, I do expect a pilot to fly what they filed and what they request. If I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign and they acknowledge it and/or read it back, I expect them to know how to fly it. If they need help, I'll either fall back on what they filed because they SHOULD know how to fly what they file or if I can/have time to I will help them out.

 

However, aircraft that file MIA..ORL..OCF..DBN..ATL that need vectors from MIA to ORL to OCF to DBN to ATL shouldn't be filing that to begin with. Sorry, I am not here to vector you on your filed route. I am here, like them, to have fun. And online, they are here to provide us as much of a service as we are them. When we have to do their job and ours, the entertainment value drops to 0 and we see no reason to continue with the session. I have had days where the number of people who refused to follow basic directions, refused to ask for help, etc. etc. bombarded me to the point I logged off. I know others have had those days too. I'll help you, but if you can't fly what you file, there isn't much I can do... and if I am busy during an event, sorry, I can't help you figure out how to fix your FMC as I would then be provided a DIS-service to everyone else in my airspace.

 

I agree with you but my original post was in the context of SIDs and STARs. It's not it's mandatory for pilots to have charts.

 

Just on the second paragraph. You could reclear them direct to ATL and give them a single vector :p

 

Yes, the ability to provide [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance to pilots is limited during events due to the high workload that is already there.

Steven Brown

Director of Events & Communications, VATPAC - VATSIM Australia-Pacific

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just on the second paragraph. You could reclear them direct to ATL and give them a single vector :p

 

If they cannot fly their filed route, they certainly won't be able to take direct to anything. I gave a guy a vector once, and then said "When able, proceed direct Alma, resume filed routing".. he flew the vector and then never turned again. I asked "XXX, confirm direct Alma?" "Affirm" "Uhh, no you're not.. you're heading away from it." At that point, unable direct ATL as I couldn't get him out of the terminal airspace direct Alma to get around a stream of traffic coming in parallel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I Ask every one here that thinks that an ATPL should be mandatory before joining vatsim to think back to their first flight on VATSIM

 

And remember that despite what you think the rules should be, and what they are are two completely different things, and in till such time that vatsim changes its membership policy, any ATC that refuses a service to a pilot because they dont have CHARTS, GPS, FMC, RVSM, FSX Active sky, should be reminded that you are the one breaking the rules not the pilot.

Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

956763

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirk, quit taking everything to an extreme.

(and it's "until," by the way)

 

Nobody said we're refusing service because you don't have GPS, or charts, or an FMC, first of all.

 

We're simply stating that pilots could use a little grooming, and that signing on and not knowing how to fly at all is unforgivable. If I can't skate, I'm not going to go play ice hockey. For this exact reason, you have to have a PPL before you can get your IR. An even better example is that you can't go play in the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B unless your instructor endorses you (as a student), or you have your PPL. The PPL satisfies the requirement that you can fly. If you cannot fly, you have no business in the air, and even more so, burdening air traffic control.

 

In the VATSIM case, if you can't fly, take a few hours to get familiar with the concepts. Fly the missions that introduce you to the "push forward, trees get bigger; pull back, trees get smaller" concept, and then log on, and we'll work on the phraseology.

 

I had to learn to skate before I started to play hockey.

I had to learn how to control the aircraft before my instructor handed the radios over to me.

 

Same thing here.

 

We're not asking you to be perfect, but we are asking that you can at least control the plane before you log on, so that you can do what we ask. If you can't, there's really no point.

Kyle Rodgers

 

The content of this post, unless expressly written, refers only to those procedures in the United States of America,

following the Federal Aviation Administration Regulations thereof.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirk,

 

Here you go again demonizing members for having a very reasonable expectation of pilots. John King of King Schools said it best in the first IFR computer-based-instruction module I ever watched: "There are only two things you really have to control when you fly instruments (IFR): heading and altitude."

 

Heading and altitude. That's all we're looking for. "Oh, so you'd be fine with the wrong heading as long as they flew a heading?" Uhh, no. The little effort (30 minutes tops) it takes to figure out how to read a DP or STAR is totally incomparable to the level of knowledge any controller is expected to have, and is totally incomparable to the level of time and knowledge necessary to obtain an ATP certificate.

 

I've watched this network completely deteriorate for five years as the level of incompetence has soared throughout all divisions. I started online when I was 13. Nobody flies well their first few flights on the network. But the people under whose control I flew, including me, learned more willingly than the vast majority of new members do today. Not so shockingly, those controllers who helped me are gone. All of them. As a 1200-hour controller now, I know why. When we have 50-hour pilots filing GPS direct to Los Angeles, no DP/STAR onboard, and then telling us they have an Engine 2 flameout after their Runway 25 departure, it gets less and less enticing to control here. It gets less and less enticing for me to instruct here, or manage an ARTCC even. I have lately felt that it's been an almost complete waste of time, believe it or not.

 

Everyone within the past couple of years who has advocated for pilot education and knowledge are firm in our beliefs, and we have a recorded history (see our post history) of addressing all of the points you argue. Not one of us has advocated for any real world licensing requirement to join VATSIM, ever. When you or anyone else suggests we have or just did, that is a blatant disrespectful lie. Covering up my discontent with someone who loads up a B757 and can't use half of its functionality with my alleged "denial of service" is also a moot point. Clearly, the fact that we have to accommodate -- not refuse to serve -- this nonsense is what has driven a great bunch of us up the wall in the first place.

 

We understand and value (or once did) what VATSIM offers to the everyday guy or gal. We absolutely hate what a m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ively increasing percentage of incompetence has done to this network. But don't start making false accusations. That's just ridiculous.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirk's right.

 

Just remember though, this is a hobby. People are here to enjoy their hobby. Some have more time than others. Some learn better than others. You don't need to know everything to fly on VATSIM nor be capable of flying anything. It's a learning environment.

 

It says in the rules to excercise patience and courtesy to new pilots and controllers....

Steven Brown

Director of Events & Communications, VATPAC - VATSIM Australia-Pacific

Link to post
Share on other sites
I Ask every one here that thinks that an ATPL should be mandatory before joining vatsim to think back to their first flight on VATSIM

 

My first few flights on VATSIM were between LAX and PHX, VOR to VOR, on an ATC-[Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned routing because the X-Plane built-in FMC had a nasty crash-habit on Macs when putting in intersections or airway fixes. As I got better, I read charts, filed departures, and began using SimRoutes. At no point did I cop out and just ask for GPS direct from a busy Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B primary to another busy Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B primary, because even with zero real-world flight experience at the time, I knew that such an idea was ludicrous.

 

Fast-forward 8 years. I'm now an IFR-rated FAA Commercial Pilot, CFI/CFII, and I owe a lot of my instrument proficiency to what I learned from this network before ever setting foot in a real cockpit. No one else in my instrument ground school had ever laid eyes on an approach plate before, while I'd been reading them for years. No one in my multi-engine ground school had the faintest clue of how to operate an autopilot except me. When I did my CFII, I was able to use my 2000+ hours of controlling on VATSIM to not only adapt instrument teaching, but also to add insight as to why certain procedures exist for instrument pilots due to ATC operations in the US NAS.

 

This network made me the pilot that I am today. I don't expect everyone to take it as seriously as I do, but at least show a little effort instead of repeating the same mistakes again and again.

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Dhruv Kalra

VATUSA ZMP ATM | Instructor | VATSIM Network Supervisor

878508.png878508.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
You don't need to know everything to fly on VATSIM nor be capable of flying anything

 

not quite right here are the basic requirement that the PRC put forth for pilots.

 

The following items are minimum expectations of VATSIM Pilots and are discussed in detail in the VATSIM Pilot Resource Center:

 

A basic understanding of piloting skills, and to safely perform all of the following:

Taxi

Take-off

Maintain an [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned altitude, heading, and airspeed

Navigate to and from an airfield in VFR flight, or navigate to and from navigation aids such as VORs when in IFR flight

Fly a basic traffic pattern

Land on an [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned runway

 

Understand the difference between VFR and IFR flight

Although IFR skills are not required, learning to file and fly on an IFR flightplan greatly enhances the VATSIM experience later

Understand valid altitudes for direction of flight

Be familiar with the Pilots’ Etiquette Guide

Understand basic ATC phraseology

Tune to different radio frequencies and effectively communicate with a controller

Answer a private message (or “hail”) from a controller or supervisor

Follow instructions from VATSIM air traffic controllers

Ask questions or get clarifications if you do not understand

Set up the software required, join the network with your real name, choose a callsign, set the aircraft type, and be able to file a flightplan

Be courteous and respectful at all times

Operate within the limits of the VATSIM Code of Conduct, User Agreement, and Code of Regulations

 

Mind you i don't know any controller that is not going to help someone out and explain the best they can how to read a chart, phraseology, ect...and we all have a good idea of where to send pilots to get better antiquated with how those types of things work. But most do draw the line at telling the pilot where to look to find their basic gauges, radio stack, or how to operate the FMC for the shear fact that not all of us are going to have time in that airframe and it goes well beyond the scope of our duties to teach a pilot how to fly the aircraft, that as Harold and others has pointed out is what the initial missions in FS9/X are for as well as a multitude of websites and training programs the vatsim and its various divisions offer.

 

All that being said yes we're going to try and help new pilots out the best we can, but they also have to put in a bit of effort to start and at least know the basics of flying.

Richard Gerrish

Developer, STM Applications Group

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steven,

 

I've read probably 50 other responses just like yours in the last 5 years. Have you looked at Kirk's post in-depth at all, or does it just sound good?

 

Tell me where you disagree with these points about Kirk's reply.

- Nobody is asking VATSIM to implement a real world certificate requirement. Nobody ever has, and nobody ever should.

- Kyle, Daniel, William, Don, Frank, Dhruv, Ryan, and me...we've all been around a while. We know what the rules are and are not breaking any when we give a voice to these problems in the forums. We all control professionally.

- Nobody is advocating for a change in the membership policy. I don't even get why that came up.

- Nobody is advocating requiring charts, GPS, FMC, or Active Sky. I made a non-political chuckle at some remarks, and now it's turned into this firestorm.

- RVSM is not something you "have" because it is implied throughout the network, at least where I control, so there's no need to worry about whether or not a pilot is capable of complying with it. (viewtopic.php?t=708 ... I know my rules.)

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites
You don't need to know everything to fly on VATSIM nor be capable of flying anything.

 

That statement right there is what scares me the most about this network moving forward. It's become a "pilot rules over all" mentality, when it should be a combination of pilot and controller input on the direction of the network. Yes, us controllers are here to provide a service, but it is a hobby, and what's the point of us controlling if a pilot cannot get off the ground without a complete hand-held guide by a controller? You'll soon find yourself flying with no ATC. It's that mentality that has driven some of the best controllers away from the network. It's not like we are asking for perfect RNAV capability, perfect phraseology, etc. We can deal with that. All we've been asking for (as controllers) for a LONG time is basic minimums that can prove that a) you can hold a heading, and b) you can hold an altitude. That's it. Do we like it when pilots go above and beyond and keep learning as they go? Of course. But hey, if you can do a) and b), I'll provide you with the same service as the ATP-rated pilot.

 

It's a learning environment.

 

This is what makes this network great. Without me being here on VATSIM, I wouldn't be studying what I am right now (ATC), and I wouldn't be leap years ahead of my cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]mates. I put the time in, and I got rewarded for it. But both sides need to be active on this front.

 

If we are so focused on a being a learning environment (this is pointed towards the general membership), why don't we mandate testing? Every excuse is "it's a learning enviroment". What are they learning if nothing's mandatory? Let's just call ourselves a game then.

Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager

VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC 

Cross the Pond Planning Team

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll never forget this one. This was a text pilot.

 

Ken Bambach: Calsign, say a/c type.

Pilot: Miami Center, say again!

Ken Bambach: Callsign, what type of a/c are you flying, sir?

Pilot: Miami Center, I don't understand sir! My air conditioner is turned off!

 

 

This is my favorite. The best is when text pilots what you to repeat yourself.

Salvatore Barcia - 1055319
Cross the Gulf President
Miami ARTCC C1- United States Division

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll never forget this one. This was a text pilot.

 

Ken Bambach: Calsign, say a/c type.

Pilot: Miami Center, say again!

Ken Bambach: Callsign, what type of a/c are you flying, sir?

Pilot: Miami Center, I don't understand sir! My air conditioner is turned off!

 

 

This is my favorite. The best is when text pilots what you to repeat yourself.

 

*facepalm*

 

It is people like this who make me question why they even bother flying on the network...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...